Speaker 02 0:00

Hello and welcome to Behind the Paddle Podcast with me, Emily Sin. Yeah, Emmy Paulson Victoria. So we've got a Halloween special today for you guys called Slitaween, where we're gonna be discussing the kind of slut shaming that goes uh alongside Halloween and the kind of origin of that and where where it's come from and where it's kind of going. Yeah, as we're kinda getting into a kind of separate time. But we'll we'll go into that further in a wee bit. Um so we couldn't do an episode about Slutoween without quoting the infamous uh mean girls. In the regular world, Halloween is when children dress up and beg for candy. In girl worlds, Halloween is the one night of the year when a girl can dress like a total slut and no other girls can say anything about it. Yeah. Which is such an iconic line. It is, it's used everywhere, yeah. Um and I feel like it's so true, it's one of these things that like I don't know, every time you go to a shop, anytime running up to Halloween, you just see all of these costumes, and there's always like a costume and then like a sexy version of the same costume. Oh yeah, like maybe skimpy, yeah, yeah, like it's in October, it's cold. It's cold in Scotland as well, yeah, especially cold as well. It's usually raining, sometimes even snowing by that point. Yeah, that's fair. No, I mean uh when you go to the shops, uh there will be the female outfits and whatnot, and it'll be way more skimpy, yeah. It'll be a lot more skin, and it'll be like, what are you? Like there are some outfits out there where it's like what are you meant to be? Because there is that little detail because there's just not enough space for it, really. Exactly. I was just like, oh okay. Is there any like guy versions of that? The only thing I can think is like gladiator, where it's just like the like skirt the man keeny, if you want to be Bora. Yeah, but that's like so this is like another thing that we're gonna touch on a wee bit later, where that's like quite wide. Do you know what I mean? Like it's no it's like ironic rather than actually supposed to be sexy. Oh, okay, yeah, fair. Okay. Rather than like a sexy nurse or something. Do you know what I mean? I don't know, because like even horror movie characters, when the males are presented, they're usually fully clothed. Yeah. Like including the face like Michael Myers and Ghostface. They have been sexualized so much, especially this last year. My god, I've never seen as much stuff about ghost faces as I have like I'm I've got something. I just get the ghost face actually for this. I live. It would sit in here, it would sit in here. It just takes that every now and again and just I'll use that as well. Just sit on your clients and I'll look in. Just like, there you go. You've got the blindfold on that one. It's lighter than like a baggage. Exactly. I've made them hotter, okay. You do. I'm not saying all my clients are unattractive or anything like that, just ghost face. It's just instantly improving any situation, really. Exactly. Exactly. Why don't we have one on there's an idea. It's fine. November's still like close enough. I think I feel like we could we could work that in. Um so I thought a good place to start was the kind of origin of Halloween going from what it was in the kind of 40s, 50s, where it was more like it was starting to be kind of commercialized, and they were starting to go like companies and stuff were like, hey, we can make some money here. Yeah. Um, and a lot of the traditions and stuff became like uh really around spending money like mass-produced costumes, everybody had to have like sweeties, like everybody had to have pumpkins. Like, I'm not saying these things weren't they weren't they done before, but companies kinda cottoned onto this and like really pushed for it and made it like something everybody should be doing rather than just like some some groups were doing it in in a low-key way in their community before, but it got really pushed through advertising and stuff. Aye. So the 50s were really pushing it on kids, kids were the the moneymakers for like the big candy companies, and like it was getting really commercialised. Um it got to about the 70s, and they were like, Here we could be selling this to adults as well. Um and a lot of it. Yeah, I can see that. Um we could go into there there's I read a wee bit more as we was talking about like how during the Victorian era, like Halloween was really like really spooky, of course. They're golfy as fuck, it was great. Um and everyone was like really like people read fortunes and stuff was really like mystical, and then as the kind of Christian influence came in and the kind of early 1900s, like oil that got pushed away, and then it kind of came back with the trick or treating again and people dressing up scary, and then when the 70s came along, that was at like the sexual revolution of the 60s coming into the 70s, and people were like, right, this is for adults too, let's go and have fun. Yeah, um it's just a real whirlwind through that. Um so as Halloween had shifted its focus onto kids and families onto adults. There was um a big Greenwich Village parade in New York that was the centre, like that place was like the centre of gay culture, and there was like a big parade. It wasn't like a pride parade, but it was like similar, and that people were going out and celebrating queer culture in the streets, and there was like a parade and floats, and everybody was getting dressed up and wearing sexy costumes, as as much the same as it is at Pride, in the sense that it is just part of the culture, and that just went hand in hand with a celebration anything in that area. And people were kind of looking at that and going, We want a part of that, as they always do with queer culture, except the straight people always do it wrong. Yeah, yeah. Um, which is where I think we've kind of led us to like slut-a-ween and like why everybody's so like slut shamey with women and men that like choose or anybody that chooses to kind of like take part in this tradition that has kinda made its way and kind of cycled through like from queer culture across, but none of the values and community spirit has came along with it and it's gone wrong.

Speaker 01 7:07

Of course not.

Speaker 02 7:10

So how how has it gone wrong? So um Am I skipping a bit? No no, it's okay. I just like when I'm saying it went wrong, most of that's been through my personal experience and like stuff, especially online. Like anytime you see anybody posting, like even just on my personal Facebook, like people would post like an outfit they would have like bought for Halloween and just got absolutely like slated by people for what they're wearing, like with being too short or like oh you're not gonna be cold. I know I've said that myself already, but like I remember when I picked up the we want and I was just wearing like a dress or something, and they were just like, Oh, you're not gonna be called? Yeah. I was just like, No. Like it's just like it's a thinly veiled, you shouldn't be wearing that. Yeah. Like that's like the polite, quote unquote polite way of putting that. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I got that a lot from my parents and my family. But when you put it like that, I'm like, ah, I do remember them people saying stuff like that. Never really heard anybody say that to men very often. This is this is where we know what's behind that. Do you know what I mean? Where like what they're actually meaning by saying that, because it's no something that just gets like thrown about, it's always specifically very specific, yeah. And it's always about what they're wearing. Yeah. Like it's no, they're no saying that when you're wearing like jeans on a top. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's like skin. Yeah, you show a bit of skin and people are like, oh, especially men. And they get this thought about like, oh, they're easy, or something like that. Like there's always connotations which come with it, which I've found where oh, she likes to dress like this, she likes to dress like that. It's like when I wear like my selkie dresses, like it's to me, it's like so much more like conservative in a way. It's not the right word. In terms of like covering up, is that what you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where it's like, oh, she she's good. Sorry, I hear the word conservative and I just like I'm just like traumatizing. Yeah, it does also have that meaning as well. Where it's just like, oh, because she's all covered up, she's decent. Yeah, she's a good woman. Yeah, there's nothing to worry about. Whereas whenever I I I wear like uh fishnets and a skirt, even if it's not a long skirt, uh even if it's not a short skirt, sorry, then there will be looks and things like that. There is just these like connotations attached to fishnets and like I think it's interesting that like going back to the mean girls quote where every other day of the year the kind of expectation on like good women, as you're saying, is to cover up. But there's almost this like weird like damned if you do, damned if you don't thing with Halloween where like you you can't win. Like you're expected to dress dress sexy, but not too sexy. Uh-huh. Conservative, but not too conservative. Like there's a really fine line that is that fine. I don't think it exists really. Or like it changes depending on who you're with, so you're never gonna make everybody happy. Yeah. I don't think that's ever even possible in the world in any type of circumstances, especially being a woman, where you you're able to actually make everybody happy. Yeah. It's like, no, non-existent. Somebody will be pissed off. Yeah. Let's piss them all off. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, have you seen what I'm wearing currently? Yeah. I mean, to be fair, my Halloween outfit is actually because I thought of it last minute, um, and I saw it like to gender bend uh things. So like I'm going as Freddie Krueger in my Freddy dress, the hat and the glove, and fishnets and my big platform boots. Um I've seen some of them individually, but no all they got there, so it'll be cool. I'm very excited. Um, because I would love to wear this out, but one people wouldn't understand, I don't think, who it is, because I'm gonna be Lily Munster um without the wig, but it's also latex, and that is sexualized as well. And yeah, yeah, yeah. It would be nice, but there would be looks and things. One of the presenters on Big Brother wore latex in every or not every but most of the um live shows last year, and it was actually really cool to see. Like, I've seen a few videos on late sort of so off topic, but we'll circle back, it's fine. We always do this. Um where people have been wearing like latex with like workwear. There's like a Lassia follow on TikTok that always like styles latex with like pencil skirt, like it'll be like a latex top with like pencil skirts and I think I might follow this person. She always does like in the hall and like at I think it is in like the hallway or work, like in the lobby, like what she's wearing that day. Oh yeah. Um and wears latex quite often. And it's quite nice to see like it's normalized in a way. Like fetish clothing has always inspired fashion. You can see it everywhere. It's like one of the main influences a lot of designers take from. And but it's always done in like subtle is ways. Like it's like you need to be looking for it or you need to know, but it's starting to like get more and more. Like, I think as people are kind of getting a wee bit more like extravagant with what they're wearing. Because like when we were at TG, like some of the outfits people had on were like wild, amazing, like out of this world stuff I've not seen before. And it's like it's quite cool to see like fashion kind of like following along behind that, and it's starting to kind of like cross the streams a wee bit. So, yeah, like it's fashion, it's not sexual or anything like that, it doesn't have to be taboo or hold anything with it, it's fashion, it's beautiful. Things only have meaning if you give it to them, yeah. And this is what I always say, like there's so many things people get offended by, but like you wouldn't if you didn't know what it was. And it it's o you're only offended because you know what the thing is. Like the thing in and of itself is inoffensive, it's just the things that the connotations of that that you associate that with associate it with. Yeah. And that's not always the case. And these associations are starting to fall away as things are becoming more mainstream and kind of mixed into just like everyday life, and it's great. Like it's great and it's bad, because it's nice like aye, it's nice things being like specialized, but no gate kept, like do you know what I mean? Aye, I don't know. Um cool, so even in children's clothing, there has been this like gender stereotypical kind of split between like boys and girls costumes. Even as kids, there's this split. Um the biggest one being like occupation um costumes. So like we boys will have like this is the whole Barbie thing. Doctor and fireman and policeman, and like all the like one of this uh this person had looked at the Toys Are Us website and kind of compared the the difference between the costumes, and they had 82 occupation category choices for boys, but only 44 for girls. Huh. So not quite half, but almost. Um and the occupations themselves were quite like for for the boys it was like fireman, doctor, police chief, and then for the girls it was like vet, nurse, cowgirl. And I don't know, I'm not saying that's not an occupation, because it is, but like what I don't know if I would categorize that in the same way. No, no. Like like if you're in America and like on a ranch and all that stuff, maybe, but I'd add we have like dugs here, yeah. It's different, yeah, absolutely. But like that that's that's oh that's grasping straws, that is oh you're a cowgirl. Yeah, and it's like an actual occupation and things here in the UK. Okay, but it's always nurse versus doctor, like there's always that split of like women being in like the almost assistant. Yes, second, the second best role and things like that, yeah. Oh but when you think about nurse, sadly, with me it does come to mind of being a woman and whatnot. Um, and of course, I feel like when men are training and they are nurses, they do get like belittled. Yeah, they get stigmatised for it totally, totally or didn't know you were a woman and things, and it's like really, yeah. It it is like again being a vet as well, it's like oh that's the w woman part. Yeah, like being a doctor is like the big boy part, and then being the vet is like, oh you deal with animals and stuff. It's softer. We are vet, you need to go to medical school and then go to veteran school. Like you actually need to do more work, or no more work, because you're not doing like you need to work harder in a way, you need to go to school for longer. Whereas I think for doctors you go down into like placement a kind of roles to begin my bit. I don't know the insurance to that, but aye, like they're no to totally dissimilar to each other in terms of like the level of work that you need to put in to get there. Yeah, it it's um see, I think we discovered in a few episodes ago, like gender, especially with kids, it's just like let them be kids. Yeah. It it shouldn't matter if this is for girls or boys or anything like that. Absolutely. Um and it's uh to me it's quite ridiculous that it's gendered. Especially the the way that costumes you can get like a T-Rex and it's like a boy T-Rex, and the girl T-Rex is pink or it's got eyelashes and painted fucking clothes and shit. Exactly. It's very uh hyper sexualized and hyperfeminised. Or no sexualized. Um sometimes. I don't know. Sometimes I don't let mine wear a bikini in general. Aye. I I still haven't came to terms of the bigger. Well yeah. Aye. Yeah. I find this quite interesting as well. Sorry, this is like jumping back in time because I have not put my notes in a very good order, but um this is kind of going back to like the Victorian times again, where young male choiristers in church dressed like virgins during they changed it to All Hallows Eve, which was like All Saints Eve. Like there was like other names that were more like they had more religious overtones, and this is when it kind of started moving away from um being about like witches and like kind of fortune telling and taroted and stuff as it had been before. And like the dead walking among the living and all the kind of stuff that w were traditionally um believed to be about Halloween back when it was like more a a religious pagan holiday rather than when it was Christianized and kind of sanctified and it was about like praying and dressing up as a virgin, as a choir boy chart. That's so normal. What does that look like? Right, right. Like go to your bed. Are they no more like dressed in white in that normally anyway? That's what my thinking was. Like Does the priest have their fun with them? That's how they like that's how they know their virgins. Yeah, maybe they're all dressed in white and then blood. But it was from this time period that the sexy maid costume came about because that's like a staple, you know, you see it everywhere, especially in the kink community. That's like it's an archetype, like especially in like sissies and things like that. Totally. And where that actually comes from is during the Victorian times, a lot of people had maids, or at least the upper class did, um, and it was regular for people to expect sexual favours from their maids. Like that was part of the job description, to the point that it became fetishised and led to the sexy maid costume, which was there was like even during that time where like people covered table legs and folk were mostly dressing up as like mummies and um like bats and ghosts and stuff and like the kind of more creepy like characters, there was also people dressing in sexy maid costumes, which is wild. That was great, because it was so normalized that that was a thing that it wasn't like a it wasn't taboo or anything like that. It wasn't like whoa, it was more like gimme gimme those titties, yeah. Like that it was such a sexualized profession already that it was just yeah, they might have been making people dress like that in their day-to-day job already, from what it sounds like, which is fucking horrendous, but yeah, jeez. Yeah, so um I just kind of a wee bit more of what we're saying, where in the 60s and 70s like birth control came out and was kind of readily available, people were having sex and freedom with sex more it wasn't like, oh, if you have sex, you'll have children, like people were able to actually have it as like a recreational activity for the first time rather than it being or not for the first time but more freely able to not worry about sex leading to pregnancy, and that just kind of creating this revolutionary people just being like free love, man, and like that's where all that came from, or at least was a big part of why that was kind of the thing then, and then all the sexy costumes came out. So that kind of explains why that was becoming so popular at that time period, but like why is it stuck about, especially with all the controversy that kind of surrounds like waistlotween and all the rest of it, like the kind of slot shaming that goes on, like why do people continue to dress up like that? Yeah. Um, so there was an article in 2006 in the New York Times where they had interviewed a costume merchant to kind of find out like kind of stats and figures of like how how many sexy costumes was he selling a year? And he was saying that between 90 to 95% of the costumes for females that he had in stock were like sexy, to the point that they had three different categories of sexy, like skimpiness, yeah. And like levels of skimpiness essentially that people could choose from to make it easier because they had so many. Um and his kind of take on the reason why it was the way it was was that people are buying them, like the reason why he's got that many in stock is because there's a demand for it, they sell out, that's what people want to buy. Um, which is kind of one person's take on it is that that it's just what women want. They just don't care about being slut shame, they're fine with, they're like, fuck this, I'm gonna do what I want. Um and are just yeah, it's just meeting a demand essentially. I I mean yes it's great that women some women don't care and things like that, but like when you think about like maternities, what what's the Kappa data or stuff like teenage girls where like they sororities that's it where like they could feel pressure to like dress like their friends and things like that. So I feel like it's not just oh they wanna dress like this. I feel like there's a lot more to it, yeah. Um yeah, I feel like there's a lot more to it. So you think it's like a social pressure thing? So a part of it, a percentage of it, yeah. Yeah. So um we haven't really said what slut shaman is, is it as well, which is basically just saying that a woman is sexually promiscuous um because of how she dresses, that she's asking for it, basically. This is the whole she's a slut, she's a whore. Yeah. Um, especially if like she's slept with a guy or if like or wore a sexy nurse costume. Or wore a sexy nurse costume. Or something that could be perceived to somebody as sexy. Yeah. Like anything can be sexy to somebody in a way, even even if you're dressed like a monster or something like that. But it's the whole where guys whenever they dress up or whenever they sleep with a girl or multiple, it's like, oh, they're they're a pimp, they're a G, they're like they're they're this, they're that is compliments. People are just not held to the same standard.

Speaker 01 24:57

Yeah.

Speaker 02 24:58

No, well, genders. Genders, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are not held to the same uh standards and there's nothing. I don't even want to call it a standard, because that sounds like something people should be done. I think like um the way that it's worded here is like heterosexual women are expected to be sexy as part of the gender performance. Right. Um so I think it's more fair like that it's just going back to this kind of like social script thing again, like that we've kind of spoke about before, where like people of certain genders are expected to behave in certain ways and are kinda told that's the path they need to go down, and any kind of diligence or divergence through that path is like bad, mm-hmm and they'll get like publicly shamed for it. Yeah. But this is one of these interesting ones we Halloween where the the the kind of social script and the expected behaviour is to dress slightly for Halloween, which is what what I think and what some some potentially some other people think, but we'll we'll go back to that. Um think is the thing, is it like it is the pressure, but it's not the pressure for like other people, is this pressure for society to conform to the way that gender's supposed to be? Like that's how but then they vilify them for it. Yeah. Which is where the problem lies. Like, how how are you supposed to navigate that? Like, there's no right answer then. You stay indoors, you stay in you don't go out. No, you just don't be seen by anybody because women will get criticized no matter what. No matter what they do. Yeah, exactly. Totally. Because it's like if you wear like a full outfit and you're covered for Halloween or you're frigid. And it's just like it's sort about control at the end of the day. It's just a way, like if people are constantly second guessing themselves and doubting themselves and having the decisions that they've made be questioned all the time, they're gonna look to somebody for answers and that's the point. Yeah. And then they can be guided and moulded and changed and shaped into what they're quote unquote supposed to be easier because they're like pliable now, because they they've second guessed themselves to the point that they would rather take someone else's opinion or like someone else's decision on what should happen rather than their own. Yeah. Like yeah. Isn't life fun? Oh god. I I mean if I wasn't who I am, like a woman, then I wouldn't have the job that I have, and I would not want to be a male, to be fair. Yeah, I wouldn't be a straight one to be honest. So that's just off the cards in general, yeah. So I wouldn't live the life of like a straight male anyway. I I no, I'd be happy. I'd be happy not being that because there is so much that comes with it, yeah. Because not necessarily most of our episodes, but I think when women talk about men these days, it's not in the greatest light. No, no. Especially in my line of work, where it's like men should be at the bottom, yeah, and women should be at the top and things like that. Again, very gendered. Yeah. But yeah, no, it's not great. Aye. I'm like, I'm full full on feminist, but I don't think the roles should be flipped because then we're facing the same fucking issue. Like I don't and I feel like that's when people I feel like people are less like this now, but it used to be like if people heard the one word feminist, they would like hiss. Oh, you know what I mean? Like it was like it was like a bad word, like you've just like like insulted your shell in front of people. Do you know what I mean? I've been called a feminist just because I've got dyed hair. Really? Yeah. By clients, obviously. Yeah. And it's like, mate, are you are you not a feminist? Right? Like That's fine. I don't want to deal with you then. Aye, like in this day and age it's terrifying that there's anybody like that would object to that. I'm not saying I would give a pass to the older generation, but like I can understand it just to the extent that they grew up in a very different time. And it's not that I would let anybody away with it, and it's not that I agree with them or think it's okay. And I would still try and educate them, but I wouldn't take as much offence to it as I would somebody our age. That's true. That's all. I've had at our age. Aye, like that like I would walk away from that person because for me, they have had access to all the same information I have, or at least to an to an extent, even like a tiny minority. new little bit of that should be enough in my opinion and like I don't even want to like it's not ignorance to me then like the older generation it feels like ignorance I think that's the difference and like ignorance isn't it like or people like being in denial or active like knowing things because they've like got heaps of trauma and had nay access to like counselors and stuff so they've just had to like shove it all down and that's like shattering their worldview. But like I don't know. I mean you could pr things are different these days. I don't give a pass to people who have dealt with it but I understand more. Yeah I don't give them a pass either I just I can understand it and I would be willing to have a conversation with them. Yeah. But for people ever age it feels a bit more like they're a lost cause. And I don't know if that's terrible. No no avoid them. But because it's like there's too many influences these days as well like Andrew Tate and all these other that like people get sucked in this rabbit hole and they kinda need to get themselves out of it before you have any chance in Heli actually having a conversation with them that's like at a level do you know what I mean? Yeah. So no I understand that like there's you've got the internet these days you've got all sorts so it's like you think feminist is a red flag? What do you actually think being a feminist is yeah I think it's hard because like less less so these days but more previously like when we were at school and stuff like feminism was painted as this like man hating yeah like can a no wanting freedom for women like oppressive can I force that was how I took it at the time for my very limited understanding of like I don't know like the slut shaman was coming from the feminists at least in the news as much as it was coming from that's where I saw the whole hate on women really. Like it made it seem like they they were the problem. They were part of the problem to me. Because a lot of these things like felt wrong to me and when it was getting shown in the news that like all these feminists were like all like women should be covering up or at least that was how it was being portrayed the people that I lived with bought the Daily Mail. So I grew up with the Daily Mail which was great. Yeah very warped view of the world paper gives but I mean my my growing up was uh immigrants are taking our jobs and things like that so it wasn't the greatest I I definitely had to and and still I'm having to like rewire my brain totally totally to get it all out and like aye because I grew up with my grandparents they're like a generation even before like they were born during the fucking World War II. I mean they're like a whole other level like back in the day like absolutely so aye it's been it's been interesting kind of getting out and actually seeing the world for what it is and being like oh you're wrong about all this stuff like I just feel sorry for them and I think this is why I've got this like no past for other for older people but like I don't know like I've had loads of conversations with with them and I've started to like change their mind about some stuff and it's been really nice and I'm like there's hope for that like that's good that's good. I've had better experiences with that than I have like people who are can age. Yeah. So um I find this really interesting bit and the way I kinda linked it in for me is that the reason one of the reasons why women are expected to dress sexy on Halloween is for men is for the male gaze. It's everything with this like when women like I'm not saying that's why they're doing it because it's certainly not why I'm fucking doing it. I just like getting dressed up and it's fun. Yeah I mean next year I want to do Austin Powers certainly not for the males but we're very like we're we're very different people from like other people if that makes any sense like I feel like me and you have went ah fuck men. Oh totally totally like fuck what they think and things like that we'll do what we want. There's a growing just like vibe that like fo what I'm seeing on social media anyway like that seems to be like think about that song Labour and how much it's been used on TikTok I get goosebumps like even though thinking about it I've got goosebumps like there there is just this growing trend again it could be we are in a wee bubble and it's on your side to TikTok because we are that way inclined as well but they're just there's just like a feel about the air though like absolutely that song is so right I love it so much. It's so good it's so good um what was I saying? Aye so like this kind of Halloween sexiness being for men at the kind of basis of why things have kind of led to the way they have um is kind of backed up by during the 18th century um in Ireland and Scotland and all the kind of Celtic nations because that's where Halloween originated from Halloween was actually about um finding a match for women. Oh okay um so in Ireland a matchmaking cook might bury a ring in our mashed potatoes on Halloween night hoping to bring true love to the diner who found it. No I'd fucking kill somebody I wonder if this is where the engagement ring and like cakes and stuff comes from because engagement rings only started like in in the next like hundred years after that I wonder if it's like a wee leftover for this for like traditional kind of Irish ways of celebrating. In Scotland fortune tellers recommended that an eligible young woman named a hazelnut for each of her shooters and then tossed them in the fireplace and the ones that burned down to ashes were loves that wouldn't last and ones that remained mostly like untouched were good matches. So there was quite a lot of like canny aye it was it was very like aimed towards people finding like their love and I feel like that makes sense with the time of year it is because it's like the end of the harvest and that's like the kind of traditional time people are supposed to get pregnant with like how long the like pregnancy lasts for like the baby being born coming into the spring. Like there's a whole thing about that like why like most people get pregnant in like August September time but this would make sense like for the people that had missed out on that a kind of last dash before the winter sets any like finding their next person. Another tale had it that if a young woman ate a sugary concoction made out of walnuts, hazelnuts and nutmeg before beds on Halloween night she would dream about her future husband. What's with the nuts, man? What's with the nuts? Because it's the time of year. That would have been what was about the place this is like the time of year for lit nuts being on trees so you're gonna be gobbling nuts at some other point as well nuts for nuts no maybe it's a symbol young women tossed apple peels over their shoulders hoping that the peels would fall on the floor and the shape of their future husband's initials I don't understand this one like why were people peeling apples like it's nicer peeled apples are nicer yeah but how would they make a shape? Or like if you'd done it like in a spiral No Like the when you peel it there's like the strip like the strip and then like chucking that out of your shoulders. Multiple strips yeah oh because it could cut a lot right okay I understand this. Sorry I can it not necessarily it would kill but if you did an A you just need one strip there one strip there and one strip there. How are you doing an S though? Just at landing fuck the S's clearly hingey clearly fucking if you like fancied Seamus Simpson and you wanted his initials try a different method try the chest notes or whatever the fuck they are right okay I mean surely if you uh fancied them you would dream about them. Yeah so well I think this is like it makes sense do you know what I mean like Oh yeah that makes sense if you if you're thinking about something right before you go to bed like sometimes you dream it so if you like you're sitting and you're mindfully drinking this thing and thinking about your crush that it would make sense that you would maybe dream about them when you went to sleep like I wonder if it would work with Bowser just summon Bowser on Halloween night I mean you could try it is that what you're gonna be up to just like get an apple I think a B would be quite difficult to get with that as well I'll go with Peach I'll wait no a pea would be difficult as well fuck's sakes is there any that start with I just like a line I don't know what you think about you could get todd no is he like a child actually I was just like the street lines like today yeah could oh Yoshi no okay I'm not gonna not Yoshi Big tongue if he denies me I'd be well knowing speak so they don't get dark just put the screen on my TV that's the question Okay what else um they also tried to learn about their futures by peering at egg yolks floating in a bowl of water and stood in front of mirrors in darkened rooms holding candles and looking over their shoulder for their husband's face. That sounds fucking terrifying I'm okay I'll stick with the egg yolks then drink those nuts like I wonder if people did this um no matter what gender they fancied because it sounds like it isn't that if this was like the 1800s I mean going back to like our episode last week like it wasn't the done thing that you wouldn't even even if you fancied other genders you would still get married to the opposite males yeah so like I don't think it I yeah this was like if people did it new then I but yeah back in the day I mean no doubt some people did it but they probably weren't gonna get married to them there wasn't even the word for lesbian at that point so exactly gay still meant happy and skipping then yeah er what was that oh so there was like competitive ones as well um at some Halloween parties the first guest to find a burr on a chestnut hunt would be the first to marry or the first successful apple bobber.

Speaker 01 42:06

What the fuck?

Speaker 02 42:08

So I wonder if that's why that's still like a thing at parties it's like a kind of leftover for that as well. They really like their apples I mean they're nuts this time of year for apples and nuts so there probably isn't there like an offelote elves that were like plentiful that could kinda get wasted as such if you're like chucking them in the fire and putting eggs and water yeah so like Halloween very much had this kind of overtone like it being like a matchmaking activity. And I wonder if that's kinda like the influence of that's just kind of left over and everybody's like getting like dressed up in what they deem as like the best way to like catch a guy. No not that it is that but like yeah that's the kind of well it's another event to like show off. Show off yeah and like show that you're the most suitable like aye yeah yeah like it's like people are not thinking that but that's what it comes for. Yeah. So um speaking of uh also got a puppy list of the top the most popular Halloween costumes last year. If there isn't a Disney character in this I'm gonna be very surprised what do you think number one is oh number one for last year like what was like big in last year it's not but what first came to mind was Harambe but I was I love that costume Harambe that's it's just yeah sexy um what what what shit went on last year? What was a big film that came out last year? That's a that's a good question I have a shy memory what came out you've already mentioned them on this podcast oh Mario like very offhandedly oh what what genre is it do you want me to tell you so it was a film that came out for like I don't know how to describe this what genre is it I don't know like popular popular no is it horror is it thriller no like I don't know that it's a kid's film feminist maybe I've still not seen it which is terrible it needs to be on my list oh Barbie yeah Barbie like how what genre is that sorry I don't know I mean like it's real like was it a kid's film no I don't think it was a kid's film I don't think Barbie was that much of a kid's film like I just didn't know how to like describe it. Feminist probably fair yeah yeah I feel like that gave it away instantly which is why I was like trying to think of something else. No yeah but Barbie was awesome it was very very good it made me cry. Yeah it was very good aye I would I really want to like sit and watch it and I've just been so like frazzled that I'm like I've started to watch it three times I need to actually just like also chunk it a night and like sit it. If any men are like oh it's Barbie watch it realise what women actually go through yeah and it's a beautiful way of how they've put it and like shut up just shut the shut up shut up Ken Shut up and put it once it's me who's still never fucking seen it but like yeah because like with with movies like that there will be men who are like oh it's a girl movie or whatnot. Yeah it's like shut up get a grip yeah it it's not the whole it I hate the whole quote unquote man up but it's at the same time it's like just shut up. I think we should reclaim man up and man up should be like be a grown up oh that's good be a grown up yeah grow up yeah like that's good I like that be emotionally intelligent be in touch with your fucking feminine side and I don't even like that saying like be in touch with all parts of your shell stop stifling your shell like be be you that's good that's good yeah I like that yeah Barbie yeah do we want to guess more or will we just tell Oh no let's guess okay what do you think number two was it's very generic like was uh a schoolgirl no I think this includes kids as well I think it's like oh okay everybody unless no okay cool princess just princess princess okay so number three is more uh traditionally boy one okay but not all that it doesn't have to be it's like a superhero oh like Batman or something or just superhero no like an actual superhero yeah Spider-Man Spider-Man okay right uh number four genre horror traditionally female traditionally female yeah um my mind has drawn a blank so it's a witch oh I think it's always people still dress as witches these days yeah I mean a hocus pocus I guess yeah because that came out last year I think I mean I've dressed as a witch in the last few years but as a sexy witch of course I just wore my normal clothes that was good um number five is another like kind of generic like traditional one traditionally female traditionally female yeah has it been any of the ones which I've said no oh traditionally female it's more like a younger one uh oh I don't know I don't think I could guess these by the way yeah this is difficult no that they're like just it's hard because there's so much that you could guess so much yeah a fairy like I thought there would have been like brandied ones do you know what I mean? Yes like rather than like like Spider-Man and Barbie yeah but I thought princess would have been like Elsa and then like which would have been like one of the folk fehokus pocus rather than it being just like but it makes sense because like they've maybe just lumped all them in the gutter so like everybody that dresses a princess rather than them individually it's just and that's why it's number two and Barbie was just like huge. Yeah yeah but number three Spider-Man like how many people dressed as Spider-Man last year how many yeah like that's quite a lot aye number six do you want me just to say though was of course Wednesday Adams I'm surprised that wasn't higher. I agree um number seven was dinosaur which in the picture is pink which is hilarious um number eight was cowboy number nine was ninja and number ten and I don't know why they've done this number ten was bunny number eleven was rabbit right okay how are they not the same is Bunny sexier? Is that that's what I was thinking is that like the girl one but how many boys are dressing up as rabbits big rabbit mascot costume that's the only thing I can think of like Fidoni Darko in that as well if they're like lumping everybody in the gather but then would they not have done superhero and no just done Spider-Man yeah like it doesn't make sense I don't like I don't know who made this list. Maybe I should have got a better list because number 12 is pirate and that is blatantly supposed to be fucking Johnny Depp like oh yeah yeah and then Princess Peach um the reason why like we don't need to go through all the lists but it's so gendered like every single one the reason why I brought up is like you know instantly like what is going to be the majority of people that are doing that other than the bunny and rabbit one which is confusing which I didn't see before I did this I just looked at this generally um but all the girl ones are like cutesy and like I we've got witch but other than that like most of them are like no scary whereas some of the guy ones are like more like there's like Pennywise and like Batman and I know that Batman's scary. But you know what I mean? They're more they're less like sexualized roles than like Bunny and like Princess and Barbie even though that is less so this year or last year. But yeah. Yeah I feel like I missed it. Oh the last thing was just kind of like where costumes are starting to go which is what we've kind of like touched on a wee bit in terms of like the kind of ironic sexy like people have clicked on to this like overdone overused like sexy versions everything to the point that they were getting like sexy pickles and like what was the one that you had said right at the start that I've totally forgotten. Oh I don't know I'm sorry I don't mean to put you in this pot. My brain is not with it today. Um what was the other one but anything yeah anything can be sexy. Yeah I like sexy lobsters and like people dressing up as like fruit lobsters and stuff yeah but like fishnets on underneath and like stuff like that. Like I feel like sexy Patrick Star aye exactly and like oh there's so many poll accounts I follow and they do like hilarious like Dobby and shit like that. Like I've seen loads of that and I feel like we'll see a lot of that at Halloween as well because it's like it's just starting to like people are taking the piss out of this kind of traditional gender stereotype um and I would like to hope that like slut shaman's gonna like die a death alongside. Hopefully yeah because kind of going back to what we're talking about with feminism and stuff like this was what like upset me or made me think I was near feminist when I was really young to begin with was because they didn't they seem for women and the way that they were being portrayed. Like for me it's like what you see like it's about freedom it's about people being able to do what they choose and it's totally about being aware of these traditional gender stereotypes and like encouraging people to be themselves and no be pressured into it. But if that's how people want to be leave them to it. I feel like becoming part of the voice that's saying like these women are wrong they're letting the team down they're like just like being a stereotype and they're going against all the things we've been working towards which is like all bullshit like that is just further controlling people. Yeah yeah like it's adding into this like all these voices that are like making people confused about how they're supposed to act and how they're supposed to be and like the less of these voices the better because then people are they getting influenced by things that are they just how they feel and that's what's important. Yeah. And that's what feminism should be about is like breaking down all these barriers and all these voices that are out there that are like taking freedom away from people because they're listening to the voices are themselves. Yeah like it's not this isn't like a cult or something where well yeah mainly a cult where somebody has one opinion and you have to follow it. Yeah totally like it's it's not that and it shouldn't be that like feminism it should be we all have our own opinions we could give them our opinion and everything like that. Yeah but don't force anything don't like there's no need to yeah it's just victim blaming for me like it's like oh you wearing that is you allowing yourself to be oppressed and it's like don't shout at the oppressor and leave me the fuck alone. Exactly let me do what I want. I agree I agree like they are the problem here what I'm wearing like it's the whole like oh you're asking for it like oh people like oh this advice that's coming out what asking for it from the men the men who rape and assault and things right so you're not gonna sort them out but you're gonna make me feel shitty. Because it's it's just gone into this like oh we're the easier target again. We're the ones that need to change we're the ones that need to conform because it's easier to get women to change than it is to get men to stop being bastards. Yeah and that's bullshit like it's the harder fight nay doubt but that's the one that needs to be hugged Yeah it does. Like do it. Aye it needs to happen yeah men need to be shut down and they need to actually learn respect for other people and not do what we've just stated which is going out sexually assaulting catcalling and raping women. Yeah and it's blaming it on their fucking Halloween costume. Exactly or they dress like that and it's like they wanted to wear something that made them happy. People can speak they have words yeah they're not fucking walking billboards for their desires. Exactly we don't dress to please men some people do and that's also fine yeah like this is where like it shouldn't it shouldn't it be about that like the problem and the onus is known women like if you're a straight like heterosexual woman who find men attractive and you want to dress to attract a man that's fine like people should have the freedom to do that. That shouldn't be something that you're shamed for especially when it's fucking expected like it's just double it's not even double standard it just doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah it's just built in it's like they they see you dressed up and with the whole oh this is what's expected and it's like a trap. It is a trap where it's just like oh we're gonna call you names and everything like that and it's like oh the fuck it's it's not a win-win situation it's a lose lose and we're we're not saying we hate all men and things like that it's the men that give men a bad name. Yeah because there are nice men out there. Yeah anybody who's slots human anybody is a bad person. Exactly only like that's known exactly yeah end of done goodbye buzzing for Halloween you're very excited yeah I'm gonna be cold it's gonna be great what are you doing on Halloween uh I am at a market in Glasgow at the baroughs it's gonna be good but I'm outside so I'm gonna be cold oh yes you are you are but I'm dressing up because it's Halloween and I want to dress up is it an 18 plus market? Yes okay it is after a certain time alright um so yeah but if anybody's kicking about and wants to come to the baroughs and come see that's the cool witchy stuff because it's like mostly witchy stuff but we're gonna be there too so jealous. Yeah there's gonna be fire it's gonna be outside so it's gonna be near me so I can see the fire. Good luck hopefully it doesn't rain. I'm gonna get a gazebo I'll be fine. Well with the fire oh like it's a fire performer they can still perform in the rain just not for as long because it's like pure soap you know what I mean it's like special stuff that's like waterproofish. Because it was raining when we went to Belton and there were still people didn't like loads of fire stuff. I'm still yet to go to Beltane I've only been once I went last year it was really good I'm I keep missing it. I've missed it for like three years remembered went and then forgot about it this year. So I'll probably go in another like two years. Yeah. Like the stars will align and I'll remember about it in time and actually go. Well I'm just going trick or treating which is gonna be fun. Yeah we'll see goods of sweeties I know I was tempted to like bling up the garden and stuff but it's so much money. Animatronics are so much money. Yeah it's a lot it's a lot we don't get any trick or treaters at my house because there's like three kids and they go to Livy because like there's no point going no because nobody's gonna hover at him. Yeah. Um aye I seen a thing by the way basic trick or treating became a thing because there were so many kids that were born during the 50s with the whole baby boom that they were just causing a ruckus and like vandalising people's properties to the extent that like see it was all like teepeeing and stuff in America like where they like chuck toilet paper or like folks like who said that yeah. Like people bought sweeties in so that that didn't happen to them. Wow. Like they were like bribing the winds to know like wreck their house and like egg their house and stuff which is like pretty funny. No Funny, but like that's why it became such a big thing earlier. Interesting, huh? That's very good to know. Yeah. Right. So is this the end of the episode? Yeah, this is us. This is the end. Yeah, thanks so much for listening, guys. I hope it's been interesting. Yeah. Um, we have the Uncensored Market. Yeah, coming up on the 15th of December in Queen Margaret's Union in Glasgow. Um, we've got some amazing workshops and we'll have Hell Cabaret on as entertainment during the day as well. So that's included in your ticket price. So it's well worth a visit, even just to come and see the guys because they are fucking amazing. Yes, I'm going to see them absolutely performance that they're working with. Like it's still, yeah, I'm pure fangirl, and I'm like, oh, it's great. It's really, really good. Um, yeah. So I don't think I have anything going on. I'm not touring. Going to London on the 12th of November. Yeah. But I think that's it. Yeah. Oh, we'll be going down on the 6th of November for the Fetish Awards as well. Oh, you will be, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um So yeah, get voting. Yeah, yeah. Vote for us Uncensored Market and the Sanctuary Sin. Yes, yes. Yeah. I have not entered that. I'm good. Also, uh, we are wearing beautiful Halloween costumes for Lingerie ish-ish. Sexy Halloween costumes. Sexy Halloween costumes. Um, and if you want to see that, check out our dark funds, which is in our all my links, so go and check that out. Yep. But otherwise, um you can get a 10% discount on the sanctuaryofsin.com if you use behind the paddle as the code at the checkout. But thanks for listening. Yeah. See you later. Bye.

Speaker 01 1:01:58

Bye.