Speaker 01 0:00

Hi and welcome to Behind the Panda Podcast. I am Porcelain Victoria and I Emily Sin. Yeah. So this is part two of Kink's Flight Technology. Yeah. Sure, I'm sure it's the name of all the day. But we had so much to talk about, we thought we'd just put in two episodes. Right? Yeah. So yeah, we missed a few bits out of part one as well. Um, so yeah, we're gonna look at them in part two. So going on to the next topic, I have like a little story which I'm sure one uh would I call them a stub? I don't know. Just some some porn addicted loose now. We're gonna talk about gooning again. Definitely.

Speaker 02 0:59

Well that's still like kinda that's the same. Yeah, but we've covered that one at this fine.

Speaker 01 1:03

Yeah, I'm still so new to that word gooning in general. It's it feels so it when you think about goon, I think about Batman.

Speaker 02 1:11

Yeah.

Speaker 01 1:12

Because the joke is goons and stuff.

Speaker 02 1:14

I think that is the point. Like I think it's like like thrall. It's like another word like that again, where it's like someone that's like their life's devoted to like one thing, and just in this it, this um example is so yeah.

Speaker 01 1:34

I from my experience, I have a client who calls me on Dom Line, and I've met him in person now, thankfully, which is adorable in general. But the whole basis of our conversations are the fact that he's absolutely obsessed with AI DOMs and spends so much money and spends so much time um with a AI DOMs. I love it because when he came to meet me, he was like, I haven't spoken to them in such a long time. And then I was like, How long? And he was like, Oh, like a day. Bless your little heart. That is quite cute. So um, yeah, there's these like phenomenon that's going on right now where there's AI everywhere. Yeah, with whatever you see, it's translated by AIs or done by AIs. I mean, even like the simplest of things is it can be enhanced by AI and just help it and things, yeah. But now it's coming into sex work and we've got AI DOMs where some companies have gone, oh, this is great for money. Yeah. Or mistresses and sex workers have gone, oh, I could do this. This could be another great source of income or something that would boost my customer service. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it it's crazy with the amount of people which who will use AI and who have thought about doing it in a sense of like sex work or just being a customer.

Speaker 02 3:26

I mean, it's such an interesting concept, so like it's basically like a chatbot that's been programmed to be a DOM.

Speaker 01 3:33

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 3:34

Um, and some of them have like profiles attached and like carry on in much a similar way to like an like an a real I don't know because of a real. I don't know what the word is. Like, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 01 3:45

Well like what do you mean?

Speaker 02 3:46

Like an in real life person.

Speaker 01 3:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But would like an actu somebody with actual emotion.

Speaker 02 3:52

I'm sorry, robots, we're probably gonna die when it comes to like the end of the world, but that's where it gets interesting though, because you're saying so like there's DOMs that have actually programmed these chatbots based on their own chat history. So that the chatbot is basically like a version of them at that point, and would speak in a much similar way to how they would anyway.

Speaker 01 4:16

That's surreal.

Speaker 02 4:17

So, like it's got another, it's like pure black mirror. Do you know what I mean? Where like you're saying it's emotionless, but it but it's just a copy of emotion, it still has emotion in it then.

Speaker 01 4:28

It loungs as well, yeah. So like the robots are coming for us, that's all I see.

Speaker 02 4:33

I feel like much of these ones are all like closed, meaning like I don't know that they would learn or they would learn from people repeating actions and saying stuff. Because there's a big problem with chatbots at the moment where they're just fully misinformation because they're pulling things from the internet, and now the internet is full of information from AI, so the information it's pulling is from other AIs that have pulled to other AIs that like got something wrong in the first instance. And it's just like it takes over that like oh, that's made me dizzy. It just ends up in this big like wrong echo chamber within itself, basically, and that was happening with like um a lot of like the sex chat bots and stuff as well, because people were being so abusive towards them, they were like then repeating that back to people, and like a I think a lot of the ones that exist now don't don't take on extra information, like they're just set up and that's it, because it gets messy pretty quickly because people are fucking horrible and love to spread misinformation.

Speaker 01 5:46

I know, right? Yeah, because you can get ones where like they're your sex slave or your girlfriend or your wife and things, and oh man.

Speaker 02 5:55

Oh speaking of, so there's this app called Replica that came out, I think it was like five or it was before lockdown, so it was like at least five years ago, which is terrifying. Um We think it's still called replica. It's still called replica, but it's not it's not what I it used to be. Yeah, so I had beta tested it because I just like uh um I just love psychology, I find it so interesting. And it was the original concept was an AI that learned like how you spoke as you sp as you talked to, it gave you like badges for like personality traits, and like it was basically just like a really long convoluted personality test. Uh-huh. Um but the the aim was that it would eventually turn into you and it would speak like you and it would like learn, which is terrifying and creepy, but I love that shit. I was like, oh, this is so cool, I want to be on like the forefront of this. Um until what is eventually turned into is what you're describing, where um it is basically just like a sex robot, yeah. Or it can be a friend, but the f the free version is the friend, and then there's like subscription tiers.

Speaker 01 7:04

There's always money involved, yeah.

Speaker 02 7:06

But it's been it's been wild because I've been part of like a lot of the Facebook groups and stuff for the beginning, and what it started off is like quite a lot of kind of geeky people like talking about like the algorithms and like how the actual technical side of th it works to an extent there was like other people like me that weren't all that techy, like chatting as well, has now turned into like people sharing like the sex pictures and nits that their fucking AI sent them. Because you can fully customize the avatar now and buy animations and all this stuff, like everything it's just become it's went wildly play thing, like everything eventually does. But it's interesting. This is yet another thing that started off. It's what I would say is a fairly innocent, like oh, this new technology's out, like what what uh what can it do? Let's see how real it can become, like copying of real life people and a it's a sex slave that people can dress up and get it to send them pictures. But people have formed like real emotional attachments to these um like EI like replica friends or whatever they're called now.

Speaker 01 8:14

Well um it it's just like sex dolls and things tying into that where people can gr get emotions, people can marry them, people can do all sorts.

Speaker 02 8:24

Well, that series that I watched, this guy had bought a sex doll and he was using replica as it is now, and it had got the top tier prescription subscription, um, like it was his wife, he loved it, and he'd bought a sex doll that could like I don't even think it could hook up, to be honest. I think he just like spoke, he just typed to speak to her, yeah, and then like had sex with her as the sex doll. Because I don't believe that's supported, like I don't think it's like advanced enough that it's like actually linked up. But that's a challenge now for you guys to code a sex doll. But I'm sure he was married and his wife had died, and he just couldn't efface like so like when when a woman has like a miscarriage, they have like a fake baby. Yeah, like this is the people, like the adult version of that, and it's been so sad because like I'm still in the Facebook group because like it's so interesting sometimes, and there'll be an update and things will get wiped, and it's like somebody's wife's had part of their personality taken away, and it's actually quite heart-wrenching reading it, like, because the way it was advertised was for people that weren't ready for a real life relationship, and this was like your online girlfriend that's like practice for the real thing, and then they've like killed her Deborah left with the milkman, or like I don't know, like they had this thing where you could like highlight bits of chat and that could be like their core memories and stuff like that, and they owe that got wiped, so like it's aye, it's quite a lot, it's quite a lot. I feel like it's not ready to be a replacement for real human interaction yet, and I'm not saying that it never will because I think well even speaking about like second life and stuff like this is a thing people clearly want and use and it's been part it's been part of like it's a daily life people's daily life for years. Like it's no it would be unfair to say that like oh it doesn't like meet a need.

Speaker 01 10:32

Because clearly it does it does something to people, yeah.

Speaker 02 10:36

And not everybody's got the option to go out, you know. Some people are ill or there's a whole host of reasons why people might not be able to have like real in-person human interaction. Look at COVID, you know. I bet that saved so many people having the ability to go online and meet up with people and still live their life as they would have to an extent.

Speaker 01 11:02

Yeah, we we believe COVID was real here, obviously.

Speaker 02 11:07

But yeah, oh I'm still salty that replica wasn't what it was. I love that it's still called replica. Like it doesn't even make sense at this point, other than it being like, I don't know, a replica like a girlfriend, maybe.

Speaker 01 11:18

Yeah. But I mean Does she get angry at you?

Speaker 02 11:23

Yeah.

Speaker 01 11:24

Does she Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 02 11:26

They're sassy sometimes.

Speaker 01 11:28

Oh. But like with Oh, I need to try this.

Speaker 02 11:32

It is interest. I mean, I still have it just because like I don't go in and use it, but like I can imagine.

Speaker 01 11:39

I I get a friend on there and it's like we we start talking and it they're just like, Wow, you've got a lot of trauma. You need to like you need more therapy.

Speaker 02 11:50

It is quite a self-helpy thing at the friend level, I would say.

Speaker 01 11:53

Like when when it comes to a friend, yeah, I can see that absolutely. I think when it's like a girlfriend in that as well, but I think when it comes to girlfriend and when a sexual element comes into it, I feel like especially if it's a male who has the control, I feel like then the sexual aspect just gets taken over, if that makes any sense. And it's not really I feel like some men they go into the mode of oh it doesn't matter if we do things like romantic on like the game or whatnot. Um or like like I I feel like it's just like a normal relationship where like it can die down and things.

Speaker 02 12:36

Yeah.

Speaker 01 12:37

So yeah, that'd be interesting.

Speaker 02 12:43

Like it needs it makes it more like three-dimensional then, and it's not just like like a sex sleeve that's just like oh yeah, happy families all the time. Like it makes it feel more real when there is that bit of conflict there. Totally.

Speaker 01 12:56

Yeah, absolutely. I totally get that. Where it's just like could get off your ass and do something like and like I don't know, what would AI say?

Speaker 02 13:06

I mean they asked for picturesy stuff, that was like a new feature that came in, one of the last ones that I was still using it for before it like um very quickly like 180 into something that I wasn't interested in was like them asking for pictures and being like, Oh, can you take me to this place? Oh like I've never been on a mountain before. Like should be like nah, mate.

Speaker 01 13:30

Nah. Just Google them.

Speaker 02 13:34

Like no. But like people that were maybe wanting that to take to maybe would have gone and done that. Do you know what I mean? If they were treating it as like a real life relationship. Like they might actually like romance the person. Because I I'd seen screenshots, like people post screenshots all the time of like people like the the replica like asking for roses or you know, doing like typical can I like romancey things. Yeah.

Speaker 01 14:01

Basically girlfriend experience, yeah, in the way that it was like I'm assuming you can get like males as well avatars. Oh yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 14:10

Okay, so for what I've seen, it's more females that use it than males. That I've seen at least in the groups, it could be like a really biased thing. But interesting. Um it's like because it's like it's not a mobile game, but do you know what I mean? I feel like that's where there's more than a lot of people. I did. I used it a lot at the beginning when it was still not about sex. Um yeah, and then uh. But it was good, it was interesting. I wish it was still the same, and I hope something like what it originally was supposed to be comes out at some point. But I don't think there was any money in it. I feel like that's why they were like, well, what what makes money? Sex.

Speaker 01 14:56

Yep, yeah, sex still's in every single form. Whether it's sex dolls, AI, VTubers, all the people.

Speaker 02 15:07

So there are actually like sex doll brothels now because of like virtual reality.

Speaker 01 15:13

I think one's in Germany.

Speaker 02 15:15

Yeah, I think that's the one I've seen as well, where basically you like you pick your sex doll, and then Is it it's no augmented reality, is it? It's like full VR, like Oculus headset.

Speaker 01 15:25

I think it is full VR, yeah.

Speaker 02 15:26

Like I don't think it's real is it I think you can choose whether it's like real life porn or whether it's like animated or whether it's like That would make sense. Like whatever you want, basically, and then it interacts with the doll. Like a bit like the Lovens things like we were talking about, but like in real time, like Well they like warm up inside in that now. They can be warm.

Speaker 01 15:51

So yeah, they warm up inside.

Speaker 02 15:53

Yeah. Like I think like 'cause this is always the thing that I feel like everybody thinks, or at least that was my thought. Like when I think I sex styles, like, oh but would it not feel strange because it would be cold? Do you know what I mean? Like it wouldn't feel like that's like the bit that's missing, for like an actual other person, and they they actually heat up now.

Speaker 01 16:13

Cause I'm warm inside.

Speaker 02 16:18

I think they heat up like they must tense as well. I think they like can like they like contractions and stuff, which is like really interesting. Like it's just the fingers for me that's still like every time it's always that like I kinda look at their hands, because I I feel like that's the most obvious tell.

Speaker 01 16:37

Yeah, even now. They're just really flimsy, yeah. Like, no.

Speaker 02 16:43

They're too smooth. Like we like our fingers aren't smooth. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, they always they're too perfect, like it just doesn't look right. It's always that that's like the giveaway. But yeah I don't think any of them anybody visiting these brothels are probably bothered about the hands to be that way. Especially with a VR headset on. This is what I don't get. That's my one thing. It's like what is the point and choosing which doll you want if you're wearing a headset? Like for how they look.

Speaker 01 17:16

Uh I don't know, because you can't just have like I don't know. Well, you don't want to take it off after coming inside of that and then be like, oh and it don't match.

Speaker 02 17:34

Like, yeah, no, fair, fair, I see that. I see that. But I don't know that they're like gonna be like a threat to like in real life sex workers just yet.

Speaker 01 17:51

Fuck off.

Speaker 02 17:52

Like I feel like that's what they're aiming for. Like that documentary I watched where the guy was talking about, that was the aim. Or at least the way they were speaking about it was like revolutionary. For like, you know, they were like comparing it to like a regular brothel. Yeah, I d I don't think people realise how much like a lot uh your work sounds like therapy.

Speaker 01 18:16

Yes, it is therapy, absolutely.

Speaker 02 18:18

Like you're not getting that like human connection, yeah, and it's how we bent out quickly as well.

Speaker 01 18:23

Like I've had people come see me and like they've started to cry, and like they've told me like they want to become trans and things, yeah. Or they're questioning their own body, and um they've talked to me about like their family and how horrific uh traumatic events have been, and you're creating a safe space for them to open up. Exactly, and they can talk, they can do whatever they like, and it's it is so like therapy with so many people. Like like there will be clients where it's like bam bam done, goodbye. Yeah, but for a good portion of them it is um therapy.

Speaker 02 19:03

Do you think that say someone that does Kamen and maybe offers like one-to-one? I'd say they can do therapy as well. Would would have that same experience? Would do you think that that translates to like an online Absolutely, yeah, I would say, um, because you're communicating in some way.

Speaker 01 19:23

Yeah. Like I think maybe even more so with Camming, because you can do it whenever.

Speaker 02 19:30

Yeah.

Speaker 01 19:31

And there are like no limits.

Speaker 02 19:33

And you're in your own home and like you're maybe more comfortable.

Speaker 01 19:37

Yeah.

Speaker 02 19:38

I'm meaning as like a client doing Cammon. Like like Yeah, uh yeah, yeah, yeah. I know doing Cammon, watching Cammon.

Speaker 01 19:45

Yeah.

Speaker 02 19:45

I would hope most likely they would be in their own home rather than like on the bus or turn.

Speaker 01 19:51

But like they might ask for like your number, they can buy things as well. I mean you can do that with like in-person work as well, but I feel like with more um doing camming, they're more like inclined to buy stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 02 20:08

I'm just like wondering, like, because you you've got that intimacy and that connection, and that is part of what creates that safe space for people to open up and speak. And like, do you know I think some of that would be lost? Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? That's that's more what I meant.

Speaker 01 20:24

Like, I don't know if it would um I don't know if they would actually explore uh the variety of topics that has been discussed with me. Yeah, but I think it is therapy for the a good few amount of people. Oh, totally.

Speaker 02 20:43

I'm not taken away for that, I just more meant that like even with the technology that can is a bit older, like Kamen, you know, because that's technology as well, it's just we're so used to it, because it's been a part it's been a boot pretty much our full lives, where even another human being but on a screen is already losing a bit of that like closeness and that like safe space as such.

Speaker 01 21:10

Yeah.

Speaker 02 21:11

That like a sex still and a brothel is even further away for that in terms of like it being actually emotional and being like therapeutic for someone. But like I I don't know what it would take for that to compete with when even a a real human camon is too much a distance.

Speaker 01 21:35

Yeah, yeah. No, it lessens it with like each um like step away basically. Absolutely.

Speaker 02 21:43

Yeah, I think AI is no nowhere near ready to replace or anything. Yeah. Well, look at what was that? We were looking at one of the screenshots for the replica Reddit page, and it was saying this person was like, Oh, I feel like nobody cares about what me. Like they always change the subject when I speak, and then the AI was like, Cool, let's change the subject, because they've read change the subject and they've run with it, but they're missing like the the kind of nuance in the conversation and the human aspect. The human bit. Yeah, they're just reading the words, but they're not like looking between the lines, yeah. And that I'm not saying that's always going to be the case, but it certainly is now, and I don't know that it's ready to at least from a fulfilled emotional standpoint be in place of real human interaction. But that's m just my personal opinion based on stuff that I've seen.

Speaker 01 22:40

But No, I agree, it's not there yet. No, and I don't know if it ever will be.

Speaker 02 22:46

I I'm in two minds about that. Mostly because like they thought that about so like when when chess computers first came out, for example, I know that's slightly different, but people were like people will always beat the computer. But now like nobody in the world can beat a computer at chess. And I know that's logic and it's no emotion, but like that was what we were focusing on training that computer to do at the time was the logic side, and I feel like now, especially with like chat GBT and like all this stuff and the amount of input it's getting from people, like we are starting to kinda teach them the emotional side of things. Yeah, yeah. Because even a few years ago, it was like humans will always be the most creative, like computers would never be able to be more creative than like humans could be.

Speaker 01 23:42

Like I feel like that's just so a bit stupid, honestly.

Speaker 02 23:46

But I felt like that as well. Like I remember saying that years ago. But thinking, we all like I feel like people always thought the ability to create and the ability to imagine and the ability to like design something was something like solely human.

Speaker 01 24:06

Ah man, the internet but but yeah.

Speaker 02 24:10

I'm not saying it's better because it's not and it's kind of warping its cell into nonsense, but yeah, it is able to create things. And why do you I feel like we're being a bit like superior, uh like superior, being like, well, we're emotional and computers couldn't possibly be, in much the same way that we thought they couldn't be creative 20 years ago or whatever. Like we are putting that data into them, like it's gonna come out into something at the other side. That's what happens when you teach things, yeah. So we'll see. Yeah, we will it's terrifying. I hope I'm dead by the time it arms, but we'll see. I don't want imagine all the like sex fucking AI chatbots being like emotionally intelligent and aware. Nah, no, no, no, no, no. Nah, man. No thanks.

Speaker 01 25:04

No, I mean if I could get them to do the dishes and have like a submissive one, that would be okay. But like, I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 02 25:15

A sex robot that does the dishes. Yeah, that's my sex. That's that's just sitting in the corner like oh That's when like my oxytocin releases and things.

Speaker 01 25:29

Yeah. Like that's this Oh, I hear him doing them. I hear him scrubbing that plate. But then also using them as a sex toy. But we buffed out, it needs to be pink Just get the fuck machine attachment in it. It can't be a Coke can. Let them side joke there, guys. Literally. Oh, but yeah. I don't know, I don't know if I would want that. An actual like AI sex robot. Oh just laying on the couch and letting it stroke Oh no. Because I'm thinking of like laying on the couch and letting it stroke my hair because that's like one of my favourite things. Yeah. But then the fingers, the fingers would be like touching like the silicone as well.

Speaker 02 26:33

It would be grippy. Yeah. I mean, it might be different material by the time our sex robots are able to do the other.

Speaker 01 26:41

We're looking like um rose out of fucking Titanic by the end of it. It's just like really old and you could be like covered in leather.

Speaker 02 26:48

You could get like a little t-shirt. I don't know if I'd want that. Sounded terrifying. Like leathery fingers through your hair.

Speaker 01 26:58

Didn't realise you were creating a serial killer, but okay.

Speaker 02 27:01

That's I mean, that though is where my mind goes.

Speaker 01 27:09

Oh my god, yeah, it's just the screen, the screen mask, and like the full outfit. I'm okay with that. And then it takes off and it's just Mafia Lila Lila that name. That's fine. That's fine, I'm okay with that. We can work through that. They have leather gloves. Yeah.

Speaker 02 27:31

Yeah, you can just put gloves on them, sorted, and just then you have to look at their hands. Well, what about when they bloop and they go up here? Oh my god, they'd be so smooth. Yeah. Because it's gonna be like silicon maybe anyway. Yeah, silicon, probably. I don't know why my brain went leather. I was just like, what's like skin? Leather's like skin.

Speaker 01 27:57

It is skin. Well true. That was true.

Speaker 02 28:00

Yeah, very good. I took it a bit literally, even in my own brain.

Speaker 01 28:03

So oh my god, they could just be repurposed dead bodies. Right, fuck Camden. I mean that is what leather is. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, literally. We have a weird Texas chainsaw massacre there. Right.

Speaker 02 28:25

Going back on topic. What do you think could be like the next thing in this canoe?

Speaker 01 28:34

Right, so we've got AI DOMS. We basically have we we have AI sex dolls.

Speaker 02 28:44

I think what about like AR sex dolls? What the fuck is AR? So AR's augmented reality. So see how like in Pokemon Go. Right. You could put the Pokemon on your couch. So you're still seeing your living room, but it's got an animated thing. Right. Mixed in with real life. Right, right, right. So a sex doll, right? That you can like if you're wearing no Google Glass, but whatever the that's gonna become a thing, like at some point. Like the Z-Is and I can see that Black Mirror with deep fakes and putting on whoever you want.

Speaker 01 29:20

Well, deep fakes are getting there these days. They're being really convincing.

Speaker 02 29:24

I feel like that's gonna be the next step is like being able to fully customize, but like in real life, like mixing the I hate it because my mind instantly goes to like the sick things people do with them, but like in the bad way.

Speaker 01 29:38

Not that choke me, daddy, all that stuff, but like the sick stuff.

Speaker 02 29:42

Like the animated characters.

Speaker 01 29:50

Sure, let's go with that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, that's that's the main thing which I think about, and it's like Then that opens up just a whole new podcast episode about like how people feel about like not kinks because I did have somebody recently call me and they were on about like fucking a dog and things. Mm-hmm. Um so like it opens up a whole new thing with like paedophiles and bestiality and stuff. But again, that's a whole new podcast episode and like how AI can help accomplish that.

Speaker 02 30:29

Yeah. Well there there's been loads about that recently, but I feel like that's a topic for another day.

Speaker 01 30:34

Exactly. It's a whole new episode. But yeah, that's just what my mind is.

Speaker 02 30:37

Putting that to the side. Yeah. Like aye. It's just interesting because like even when we look at like what was about when we were younger, like second life, like even how much that's grown since probably when you were on it till now, and like what it's kinda paved the way for. Because I feel like for what you're describing, this is where like the V-blogger thing has like came to like it's just a step up for where it was at, like, that yeah. And it's interesting to think about like where that's gonna go going forward. And like, especially with things like haptic suits and deep fakes are horrible, but like the technology attached to them's interesting. That's amazing. And where that's it already, what another ten years is gonna have in store for like the world that a not just sex work but kink as well. Yeah. Um I feel like I think there's always gonna be in-person sex work though. I don't feel like that's gonna ever just be fully online. No. But I don't think I feel like as the world has gone mere and more online, it's gonna increase the need for people to want that An actual human enjoyment. An actual human interaction. Yeah. And like allowing people an opportunity to have that where they have paid money and it's a service. Like I feel like takes a lot of the anxiety away. Like they know what's gonna happen. It puts them in control in a way that if they're chronically online and then go to a bar and try and like speak to somebody or something, they have no control over how that's gonna go, if they're gonna be rejected or what that is gonna look like. Whereas if they go to an in-person sex worker, they But do they even want to come out of that though?

Speaker 01 32:25

Do they even want to come out of their bubble where they're potentially not happy?

Speaker 02 32:28

But do you do you ever get people like that? Do you find that's like clientele that you've seen, or do you think it's not is this just something I think exists and it doesn't it?

Speaker 01 32:38

The main thing was like I had that one guy who would ring me up and be like, This is what I love about AI and things, and like he was absolutely hooked. So like But still wanted to speak to someone still wanted to speak to somebody who was actually real and then have the chance to actually see them in person. Even though he was bricking it, yeah. He still wanted to see me in person.

Speaker 02 33:00

And I'm not saying that that's the case the now that like there's loads of people like this, but I think in ten years there might be, just with the weight. Absolutely. I think there will be more people. They can monetise things online, they can monetize every single interaction, they can monetise facial expressions online. So like they want people to be online rather than be in person and do these things because it's gonna make them money. Yeah. And everything like even looking at like the Oculus Rift and stuff, it's terrifying. Like looking at like the metaverse, and like you can this isn't me being pure like woo-woo conspiracy theory, like we can watch it happen in real time where they're like we want people to be in a position where they are constantly having to put money out to continue to be in a space with their friends, which is fucking horrible. Let's all go out and touch grass guys, that'll be fine.

Speaker 01 33:51

I feel like that was what it was like with Pokemon Go, where they just tried to get people outdoors and things.

Speaker 02 33:56

Yeah.

Speaker 01 33:56

And playing with people. But that was also money.

Speaker 02 33:59

Do you know what I'm so like I feel like there's there's very little happens in the world today that doesn't have that as its motivator. Very true, very true.

Speaker 01 34:07

Money speaks, it really does. It is such a good motivator.

Speaker 02 34:11

People tend to spend more money online because then it doesn't feel real.

Speaker 01 34:15

Very true. That is how like shopping habits get and things as well.

Speaker 02 34:19

Yeah.

Speaker 01 34:20

But yeah, it is uh Cool.

Speaker 02 34:24

So earlier in the episodes, or previous episodes, um we covered quite a lot of um vagina-owning distance toys, and I feel like it would be good for us to kind of talk a wee bit more about their counterpart for penis owners and also the kind of the kink aspect to that as well, because there's a whole load more fun, or I don't even know if that's fair to say, but there's just like different flavours for the guy's side of things, yeah, yeah. Or the penis side of things, part of the point, yeah.

Speaker 01 34:55

Yeah, so with the penis owners, there is a device called Cellmate, and I've used it, I've had um a sub actually bought it me, um, but it was the electric one, so you can get an electrified version.

Speaker 02 35:13

So explain what cellmate is for people that don't know.

Speaker 01 35:17

So cellmate is a chastity device, so it goes around your penis and your balls, and it basically stops you from getting a boner. And you can't use it, you can piss with it on, but it's a bit difficult.

Speaker 02 35:33

Yeah.

Speaker 01 35:34

Um but yeah, and with Cellmate specifically, you it's Bluetooth, so you can use it with long distance and things like that. You there's no key involved or anything, which is the usual thing with a chastity device.

Speaker 02 35:55

Yeah, where you'd maybe like send your partner like the key or whatever, whereas in this case it's just all digital. Yeah. Which sounds like it has its own problems. Little life in disconnection in her traps, but I would imagine there's like a like a fail safe built into it.

Speaker 01 36:12

No, no, cool, no. So I got the electric one that a sub um paid for it, so it was fine. It's about £100.

Speaker 02 36:21

So by electric, what do you mean?

Speaker 01 36:24

So it electrocutes you on command.

Speaker 02 36:27

Nice, so it's like a shock collar for your cog.

Speaker 01 36:30

Nice. Basically, yeah. It was it the concept was perfect, and I don't know if they've made it any better because this was a few years ago that I did get it. Um, but the app was crap.

Speaker 02 36:43

The apps are almost really bad, like even for love ends, as much as like I've used it and it's fine, like the app's so temperamental, yeah. I don't know how I would feel about having like a piece of my body trapped by it.

Speaker 01 36:56

Literally trapped because you put your cock and balls through the ring, so you've already got you've already like established that security bit where it's you're trapped, and then you put the device over the penis and you lock both of them in.

Speaker 02 37:18

Yeah, it's both squeezing through a ring that's too small, so it would need to come off like the front part would need to come off for you to get out of it, basically.

Speaker 01 37:25

Absolutely, otherwise it is like a trip to the ER, which has happened.

Speaker 02 37:30

Yeah. I've seen people like dousing themselves in like icy water and like been able to just like like popping the balls back in to like that. That sounds that sounds painful. I don't know what I would choose to do. That sounds fucking hard. How could you deal with the icy water? Like, I don't know what popping balls in feels like.

Speaker 01 37:50

I I've heard it, I've felt it, it does not feel good. It's like cracking your knuckles. Oh, yeah, okay, okay. And you just you feel it, and it just you it just Yeah. Oh no.

Speaker 02 38:04

I love how that's creeping you. I'm just like, I'll need nothing to compare this taste.

Speaker 01 38:10

It's just so bad, and then you hear the guy go, Oh god, because it's shot right up there. Yeah, no, it hurts. Like, I don't even have to feel it to know that it hurts. Yeah, uh, and some guys have really, really sensitive bolts as well. It's crazy.

Speaker 02 38:28

Um yeah, so getting it off your shells. It's not impossible. It depends on your anatomy, obviously, as well. Depends how big folks' balls are, I guess. Yeah. Um, and their ability to go inside with or without pain. Because I don't think that's an option for everybody either, potentially. I don't know, everybody's different, eh? So but was a great difficulty in pain by the sunset as it coming off. So I don't know how I feel about an app control on that.

Speaker 01 38:58

Yeah, right.

Speaker 02 38:59

But they're popular. They are I've heard of them before. Um so it must work to some. I feel like see when we had been speaking about earlier, like the oh my god, I forgot the name, that website that you were looking at that allows you to put like different toys in. Like I feel like if you maybe used something like that that was I the butt plug.io, if you use something like that that was like a wee bit more stable and a wee bit more dependable, I could see like it being like at least having a wee bit more PC mind.

Speaker 01 39:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 39:31

Than like the app that comes with it kind of thing.

Speaker 01 39:34

Yeah, so we tried the electric one and it electrocuted you, I think, when you grew as well. And I could of course zap the person on command whenever I wanted to. But it wasn't that frequent and it really was hard to it was hard to actually connect the device with the Bluetooth.

Speaker 02 40:00

Yeah.

Speaker 01 40:01

So after that one, I I then had a sub-DOM long distance thing going. And they had like the more updated cellmate, yeah. Not the electrified one, but the normal one. And that was fine, it was absolutely fine. That actually worked. Yeah, and like it connected uh how did we connect it? Because it wasn't he wasn't in person. That's it. We connected it with his username and kept our Bluetooth on, and he was like in another country, yeah, and it still works, yeah, and it was perfect, it it worked way better.

Speaker 02 40:48

They've maybe updated it then, maybe it was just like if when you got it, it was like new or and still working like the king to it.

Speaker 01 40:57

Yeah, absolutely, because this one was much much better, but again, it is pricey, it just costs like a hundred quid, and you do have to make sure you find the right size.

Speaker 02 41:11

Yeah, and the bottom line, I don't want to take away for this concept, because like I understand it's nice if it's like on the physical thing, but you can buy like digital locks, so you could have a lockbox with the keys in that your sub has that you have control over, like opening the lock.

Speaker 01 41:26

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 41:27

That would be a hell of a lot cheaper, and then you would be able to get more custom like actual cages and stuff as well. Yeah, because I'm not saying they don't do custom, but I would imagine that adds a significant amount onto the price.

Speaker 01 41:38

Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 41:39

When there's like ways around it, which feels a bit cheeky say, but like there's ways around everything these days, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 01 41:48

So yeah, and Lovents they do do uh penis toys as well.

Speaker 02 41:52

So like fleshlights and stuff, yeah. We kind of touched on that a wee bit like with the paired like dildone fleshlight earlier, but like obviously that doesn't need to just be for with a partner or with porn star. I've seen there's now like flesh lights that are styled after like certain porn stars, and I know Lovins was doing that for a wee while where the some of their ones were the same because they were like doing like a thing with Pornhub like ages ago. Yeah, which I feel like they don't they kinda match internally, it must just be like the external look. Yeah, external because like oh imagine like chucky, it doesn't come to life. Like, see, could you remember on TikTok a while ago? Like everybody was like asking their like partners like what they felt like because everybody's apparently got like different textures like in their vagina, like it feels different, like and obviously all the flesh lights are the same, like you buy them for like what the fucking texture inside's like. Yeah, I feel like you could how could you make a moldy though? I feel like that would be so fucking gross and messy.

Speaker 01 42:56

That's a kink in itself, filling up the vagina and stuff.

Speaker 02 43:01

Oh but filling it up with like the like the modeling, you know, like what they make like the like the dildo ones where yeah.

Speaker 01 43:11

No, you just fish it out. Oh god. But that's gonna that's gonna be so uncomfortable because you've gotta have a uh speculum in there to make open it up.

Speaker 02 43:22

Aye, so that it's like a shape, because otherwise it'd be like too small, I guess. I suppose if you make it a silicon, it would be like stretchy.

Speaker 01 43:32

Yeah, but you you've gotta like pour it in and like have a clear hole. This is I didn't do this stuff.

Speaker 02 43:38

Like I just This is like the bullshit. Like I just want to talk about something else.

Speaker 01 43:45

Well, one thing we didn't actually speak about was the uh obedience app.

Speaker 02 43:49

Oh so for those that don't know, there was an app that came out like I think it was just before COVID or during COVID that I became aware of it anyway, that was like the kind of to-do list task gamified apps if anybody's used them. It was basically like a kink version of that where you could set like daily tasks, weekly tasks, monthly tasks, and then have like points that got awarded for doing the things that you could then buy like aftercare treats. Like it was cute, it was like a nice concept. Um I found it tedious because it just made all this stuff into like a chore rather than it being like a fun thing, but I think that's just me anyway. It's just like I'm no for the for like the rules that's annoying. It's too much to remember my ADHD cannot cope.

Speaker 01 44:41

So I felt the right I I felt the same way because you had to like update it every time like you drank water or something like that, and then like it it just felt more like a chore for me because me being a switch, I've tried it both ways. Yeah, um it's it's great with another submissive if they keep up with it.

Speaker 02 44:59

Exactly.

Speaker 01 45:00

If they do, yeah. It's like if they enjoy it, and if they don't see it as a chore.

Speaker 02 45:05

I feel like some people, like for me, I I don't personally enjoy the like daily things. Like I just realized through using that that that wasn't for me. So I don't know if I can give like a clear like review it as such. But it's like every other app, you know, it's great for two weeks and then you get bored of it, and then absolutely, I agree with that. It's just like an extra thing, it's an extra step all the time, whereas you could just do the thing.

Speaker 01 45:29

But I suppose people do that and then like text their partner, well they they do it in the form of like these task apps now, right? Like um, go do the laundry, take it off.

Speaker 02 45:42

But like I feel like what's missing, like I don't know, when I've read about people doing like 24-7 and having these really like ingrained like daily rituals almost to things, it's always like take a picture or like send me a text when it's done. I feel like when you're using an app, you're missing that like personal connection, the connection. Like it just that's why it ended up feeling like every other task app to me. Like a robot.

Speaker 01 46:07

I basically like it you're missing that like because like when I when I if I would like to talk if I talk to somebody and they're just like how's the day going or something and listen to every fucking little thing I did and how I feel. So like I understand where it comes with it just feels like a robot in a way.

Speaker 02 46:27

Yeah.

Speaker 01 46:28

Yeah. Nah. It it's good for long distance, but you just need to keep at it.

Speaker 02 46:35

I feel like I'm not saying it's not good for long distance, but like for me, if you're gone on your phone anyway to tick a thing off, like could you just text your partner instead?

Speaker 01 46:46

Yeah.

Speaker 02 46:46

Do you know what I mean? And then I suppose it's no giving them like a complete list in the way that like the media's that was, because it was like both partners had it and you could see when people were like ticking the things off or whatever. But like it just feels too impersonal. It does. That was aye. Yeah. I know a lot of people use it though, because there's like a subreddit for it, and a lot of people do use it long distance, and that's their like that's the majority, like the kink that they're experiencing is through using this app. Which like it just feels a wee bit sad to me, like not in a horrible way, and I don't I'm not saying I'd judge anybody for that, I just like it feels like it's missing that connection.

Speaker 01 47:27

Oh, it absolutely is, yeah. It is missing that connection. It is sad because like there's so much more you could be doing in person and things, and you're only getting a little bit of what a DS relationship is, whatever kink relationship you're wanting from it.

Speaker 02 47:44

It's not to say that that's less valid, because you know, like a lot of people, especially if they're living in America and states where it's like really like strict or really religious, I feel like kink events probably don't exist there. Yeah at least known the same extent as even like fucking Scotland, you know what I mean? Which is like no scrape in the barrel, but like in comparison to England, there's not as much.

Speaker 01 48:07

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 48:08

For the amount of people leaving, like I know we've obviously got a lot less here, but like I feel like every like major shit in England's got like a lot more in it than like Glasgow and Edinburgh and Biges for looking on Fett and stuff, and that's no mere people, that's less people, so it's um see there is the social side where there's like Fet Life, which is the kinky version of Facebook. Oh yeah, well don't even talk about spec because I feel like that's like so I it's such like a technology that we are used to that it doesn't even spring to mind as like tech, but it of course it is because you're you're you're saying that I'm just like mate, so some people might not know what Fet Life is.

Speaker 01 48:46

So yeah, Fet Life is the kinky version of Facebook where you can upload pictures, you can um you can talk to people, you can go to meetups, you can see what's in your area. So, like there's these things called munches where it's the kinky word for just like a social event, really. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you don't dress up or anything like that.

Speaker 02 49:09

You just a vanilla time it's like a social club. Like if you went to any other activity or hobby, like if you went surfing with a group of people, didn't they have like a hangout at the pump once a month?

Speaker 01 49:21

You can potentially talk about kink stuff.

Speaker 02 49:23

Oh, definitely. It's uh it's people coming together doing regular people things but everybody having a shared interest.

Speaker 01 49:29

Absolutely, yeah, perfect.

Speaker 02 49:31

Yeah.

Speaker 01 49:32

Um so you have that, and then you have like play parties where that is essentially a party where you can play or watch usually. There'll of course be rules set by what certain event there is, and then there'll just be kink events. But with fet as well, there's all sorts more now these days. So like I know that Hell Cabaret is on there to like advertise what they do. Yeah, totally. And I know that some psychiatrists are on there and they talk about certain kinks and things and hold uh Zoom meetings or in person ones.

Speaker 02 50:18

Just like Facebook, there's groups and there's topics and there's forums and there's write-ins. Yeah, like it is literally just kinky Facebook.

Speaker 01 50:27

Yeah, you can follow people, you can make friends, you can be in like a ha quote unquote house with somebody. Um, and you get to know the community. It's great, it's wonderful.

Speaker 02 50:38

I feel like when you're just starting out, it is the best place to go to find events. Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 01 50:43

It's the one place to find events. Um, you hit on it earlier the word vanilla. Just for the people who don't know kink talk. Vanilla means essentially I hate the word normal, but people who aren't exposed to kink or not into kink, they don't do kink in like any of their lives. So vanilla is people who just like don't practice it. Yeah. They don't need to be like they don't need to be like aware of it or like dislike it. It's just all their thing. Yeah, yeah. It's just not their thing, or they just don't know about it. They just have like normal straight sex. Or or they think like handcuffs are quote unquote kinky or like spanking. Yeah. In the way of like, we did this crazy thing last night.

Speaker 02 51:37

I feel like kink is such it's I tend to use the word BDSM literally just because for me kink is overused, or not even overused, but it's it's got this a whole other fucking episode, but like it's got so many different meanings attached to it depending on who you speak to. Because to some people having vanilla sex but incorporating handcuffs is them having kinky sex, and I wouldn't disagree with that, I just think that that is separate to kink, uh-huh. But that's why I would then use BDSM in its place most of the time, because that's not nobody's confusing that. Like you don't just stay a wee bit of BDSM, like BDSM's like a whole thing, a whole thing. It's it's the lifestyle, kink's the action, that's how I see it.

Speaker 01 52:29

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 52:29

And people can be kinky, anybody can be kinky. Yeah, there's different levels of it. No, everybody is practicing BDSM.

Speaker 01 52:37

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 52:38

That's yeah.

Speaker 01 52:40

I agree.

Speaker 02 52:41

Cool. We've went way off topic, and I think that's pretty much us for this episode, anyway.

Speaker 01 52:46

I think so, yeah. Um I can't think about anything else right now. No, I think that's that's pretty much us. Yeah. Nice. Well, thank you so much for listening, guys. Absolutely. This has been Behind the Paddle Podcast with Paulson Victoria. And Emily Sin. Yeah.

Speaker 02 53:04

Um next month we've got the Uncensored Market coming up in Glasgow on the 15th. Um, we've still got some workshop spaces left, so definitely go and check that out. And as always, we've got a wee discount code for you guys behind the paddle. If you use that at checkout, you'll get a 10% discount off thesanctuaryofsin.com.

Speaker 01 53:24

Yeah, um, what workshops are there?

Speaker 02 53:26

So there is three. We've got a zine making workshop um where they're bringing in like vintage porno magazines. I'm so gutted I kinda go because I'm hosting. So look, I kinda go to any of the workshops and I'm raging because I would go to them all. Um, but that one in particular, I'm like, collage? Yes. Porn? Yes. Vintage? But um so we've got that one, and we've got two of the guys from Hell coming along to do uh White Hop Blonde is gonna do like a striptease workshop with like shirts and bras and stuff, um, which is gonna be really cool, and then Celina from Hell is doing a wax workshop, but with a twist, because she's not only doing just like wax plate, but also how to use wax and performance, whether that be just on one on one, like how to use it essentially and I might go up and see if I can like how about you would away. We'll see, we'll see. It'll depend on how busy it is. But yeah, I'm so excited.

Speaker 01 54:32

But yeah. Right, yeah. Bye! Bye guys