Speaker 01 0:00

Hi. Welcome to Behind the Paddle. This is part two of what would we call this one?

Speaker 02 0:12

Prepar that sounds like pre-production age.

Speaker 01 0:16

I thought of preparation Armageddon.

Speaker 02 0:19

Yeah, no, it does sound like that as well. We'll come up with a name after it's like Prepared and to Peg. Preparing to Peg. Yeah. And these games run by two ideas. Just P E G Peg.

Speaker 01 0:36

Part two. Yeah. So I'm Emily Son. And I'm Paulson Victoria. And welcome to Bind the Battle. Yeah.

Speaker 02 0:46

Um on to the lovely next topic, which is hemorrhoids and you know feature.

Speaker 01 0:54

Okay. Well that that's a lot harder in the way of pegging somebody.

Speaker 02 1:03

Yeah, like you're probably best wait until they heal.

Speaker 01 1:05

Yeah. Like get them out of the way. Yeah. Remove them. Sort that out because you're not going to be able to peg for long. Yeah. And it's going to hurt every time you go in and out.

Speaker 02 1:16

Yeah.

Speaker 01 1:17

So no no no no no. Yeah. I would absolutely get seen to.

Speaker 02 1:22

I go to the doctor.

Speaker 01 1:23

Yeah.

Speaker 02 1:24

Yeah.

Speaker 01 1:24

I I know this comes with another point which we're going to add to later, which is like being embarrassed of pegging and like being embarrassed of like sadly your body.

Speaker 02 1:34

Yeah.

Speaker 01 1:35

But you do if you do wanna a hundred percent have fun, yeah, but definitely go to the doctors and like see to that because it's it's not gonna be a pleasant time. It really isn't issue.

Speaker 02 1:50

It's just gonna exacerbate things.

Speaker 01 1:51

Yeah, no matter how much lube you have down there, yeah, it'll still hurt.

Speaker 02 1:56

Look, there's a wound there. That's exactly totally. Yeah. Cool. So your advice is just don't do it.

Speaker 01 2:04

Yeah, don't do it. You you can try, mate.

Speaker 02 2:08

I I know there will be people you've had clients and stuff that have come with many, many clients that I've had.

Speaker 01 2:14

And like, I don't know if it's down to like not having knowledge of it. Because I'm on the back end. I will tell you like you need to go see the doctor and get it checked out. Because I have done that with clients where it's like okay.

Speaker 02 2:29

Oh, have you done that thing? Sorry, this is like way off topic, but see how some tattoo artists are like trained in recognising when people's like moles and like things on their body are like potentially like cancerous.

Speaker 01 2:42

Like there's I I I'm not really a sniffer dog in that sense, but I've just been like if it looks a bit dodgy, uh you're gonna say, you're gonna say totally because like I couldn't what was it? It was like I couldn't find somebody's prostate, or like it was like too big, yeah. And I was like, please go get that checked out.

Speaker 02 3:00

Yeah.

Speaker 01 3:00

So like I have free, well, not free, but free, you need help, go to an actual doctor. You're with your psychiatrist right now, but go see a different type of doctor. So like I have said to people, like, you need to like go see help for whatever reason, because um, yeah, I'm sure there was other instances as well where like a guy's penis just didn't look right or something. Yeah, like I remember a guy's one of one of my clients quite a while ago, his penis was like bent, yeah. Completely bent, and he was like, Oh, it just got like that one day. Or was it broken? So it wasn't broken, it was because when he was younger he had bonus constantly, he was press pressing it down, yeah. So like the So the one changed and it stayed like that. Basically, yeah. It was like not the blood vessels, but the blood or something just had just like yeah grown that way, basically. Basically, yeah, because it had been pressed down so many times and it just stayed that way.

Speaker 02 4:14

That's quite common though, is it no? Like sometimes. Was it like how extreme the angle was? Which was all very deep and have sex with it or anything like that. Oh right, okay.

Speaker 01 4:23

Yeah, like properly L-shaped, like uh let me see if I can remember a guy's penis. Uh like yeah, just just like that.

Speaker 02 4:33

Or like up the way. Yeah, up the way. Oh right, okay. I thought you meant to like one side because like I found that's like quite common. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 01 4:39

Like they always like Oh, yeah, they they either sway or like they look like a banana or they're straight, basically. But like, no, he went and got private surgery, paid like 10 grand to get a normal penis. Yeah. Yeah. Because he couldn't do anything with it. Yeah. He could like he could wank to an extent, but he couldn't have sex.

Speaker 02 5:00

Was it so rigid, like in in the way, basically? Oh, right, okay.

Speaker 01 5:04

Yeah. You gotta gotta make sure you treat your penises well.

Speaker 02 5:08

Yeah.

Speaker 01 5:08

And fine.

Speaker 02 5:09

Like if you if you pop a bonus, how many people do that though? Do you know what I mean? That seems like a normal thing that people would do.

Speaker 01 5:15

What press down their bonus?

Speaker 02 5:17

Like into them into their stomach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hi, like loads of people do that every day.

Speaker 01 5:22

Like he he just constantly did it as a kid, and this is just how how it turned out, really.

Speaker 02 5:29

But I th I thought that was just like what everyone did, no?

Speaker 01 5:32

There is a term for it, I can't remember. Right, okay. I did look up and do a bunch of research at the time, but this was a few years ago. Yeah. But no, yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 02 5:43

So he's done it to an excessive amount, basically.

Speaker 01 5:45

Yeah. Shame. I did not know that could happen. Yeah. Cool. Bent penises. Yeah. Oh, I also tell men um about like their foreskin and stuff. Yeah. Because like I do get clients who see me and like they haven't pulled down their foreskin. Yeah. And I'm like, Yeah.

Speaker 02 6:04

Like they're full lives. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 01 6:06

They're full lives. And he like one of my I've had a few times where the guy's just like, oh, it doesn't go down. And I'm like, I can make it go down. Yeah. That's fine. Just tell me. There'll be a bit of blood, but it'll be fine.

Speaker 02 6:19

Yeah. Just rip the band-aid off.

Speaker 01 6:23

Literally, yeah.

Speaker 02 6:24

Oh my god. Like 30 usually fucking bagged up snake while sticking it shots.

Speaker 01 6:32

Again, this is gonna be a good another episode when we make an episode just about stigma personal stuff. But no, yeah, I I am to some extent like a doctor to my lovely patients, where it's like, please go get checked out. It's like uh when I had that I had um a client faint on me multiple times in two sessions, and I was like, mate, take this seriously. Like I'm not electrocuting yet, I'm not like doing any impact or like having you on your feet, you need to go see somebody. Yeah, and turns out he had like a heart condition, so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 02 7:08

Guys just avoid going to the doctors, like the absolute like one of my friends' dads had a cough for four years and just never went to the doctors, and like everybody begged him to go, and he finally gave in after four years, and it turned out he had cancer in all of his organs, and they could have caught it earlier because it started off as lung cancer, and that was where the cough came for. And after he got told this he died two weeks later. Fucking hell, and that freaks me out, and I'm like, go to the fucking doctors, yeah, like it's not worth it.

Speaker 01 7:38

No, it's not worth like being embarrassed or ashamed or anything like that. It's like it's the stupid fucking um phrase of like quote unquote man up. It's like no, just be a fucking human, yeah, and an adult go. Just fucking go, just fucking go, just go to the fucking doctors, that's all you fucking need to do. Oh, I feel so nice to talk like that.

Speaker 02 8:01

Yeah, you need to let out, man. You can't bottle up all the time.

Speaker 01 8:06

It's like I'm speaking speaking my language.

Speaker 02 8:11

I was gonna burst into a song there. What song? Like the the song about the marmite sandwich. It's no marmite. What is it? What? Oh, I kinda remember. It's fine.

Speaker 01 8:23

Somebody tell us. Benjamin.

Speaker 02 8:25

Benjamin sandwich.

Speaker 01 8:27

What? I have no idea what this is. What is that song? Donna sing it for us.

Speaker 02 8:31

I'm not singing. Nah. He's like dee. That one. I will look it up after it's like cool. Speaking of men and manning up, um, leads us on to the next part of the Pegan preparation, which is the can I psychological like emotional preparation. Because there's so much hang-ups with this, it's insane.

Speaker 01 9:00

It is. But like we discussed this afterwards as well, because don't know if anybody knows, but I'm single now. Um but like we we discussed after um pre- one of the episodes that like my previous on the opposite end, my previous partner wouldn't even do anal on me. Yeah, yeah. Because he was like, and like so like it goes both ways. It's like but it's the man. The majority of the time it's the dude at an offense.

Speaker 02 9:31

I wouldn't say that with like like lassies, because there's a whole thing about like, oh, if you do anal, you're dirty. Oh fuck. There's the whole ha there's a whole other hang-up in there when it's the other way around as well. Do you know? Like, I don't that like there is just generally hang-ups about anal. But as always, on the female side it, you're a slut. On the male side it, you're gay.

Speaker 01 9:55

Well, I was more on about how um men don't really want to do it, but lassies are like, okay.

Speaker 02 10:02

With what, sorry?

Speaker 01 10:03

With like doing anal.

Speaker 02 10:04

Like I don't think that's the case though. Nah. Like it is with some people, but a lot of people are like, oh, that's dirty, I would never do that. Oh, it's like that's quite a common at least in public, you never know what goes on behind closed doors, but there there is a there is a lot of stigma with that with females as well. I think it's getting less at a quicker rate than it is with like males, I would say.

Speaker 01 10:29

I think this is again me working in the sex industry.

Speaker 02 10:32

Totally, totally.

Speaker 01 10:33

And where like I've had people who have like women who are just like, yeah, that's too anal and things like that.

Speaker 02 10:39

I have met people that don't even masturbate as women.

Speaker 01 10:43

Oh no no.

Speaker 02 10:44

Like, I feel like you have quite like a like a tunnel vision view sometimes, just because like the the people that you know know absolutely.

Speaker 01 10:52

Whereas like I don't like people, I stay in my bubble. Yeah, that's totally fair.

Speaker 02 10:57

I wish I I wish I could say the same. Um but yeah, just like through like like meeting people and stuff over the years, like they're I don't know. Like I've still know people who have never came like at all. Oh no no. Like they're there's still quite like a repressed like I'm not saying this is the case for everybody, and obviously it'll depend where you go and who you speak to and whatever, but um at least from my experiences and the people I've heard about me growing up and stuff, that's been the case that it's still had a lot of stigma attached, it's still been like dirty and wrong and taboo and like something you don't do unless you are like a slag or whatever, and it's still got like quite a wow.

Speaker 01 11:43

Well, I mean, going back to like a little bit of a step to the side, yeah. My childhood, like my mum walked in at one point when I was masturbating, and she was just like, Oh, this is disgusting, this is horrific.

Speaker 02 11:56

Yeah, I had all that as well.

Speaker 01 11:58

Like, I mean, and then she found out what I did for work. Uh that was a lovely phone call. Because like I accidentally called her from like my work once, yeah, and like she looked at the little dog. Hello, Sister Victoria. Are you ready to get your hole pummeled? Oh hi mum. Yes, I did move away to Scotland.

Speaker 02 12:27

I'm so glad I did not hear a little phone call. It's like horrible for you, but like, yeah.

Speaker 01 12:34

Like I meant to call her, but it just went out on my work one. And then as soon as I realised I fucking buttoned it, yeah. But she she she just looked it up on WhatsApp and then she found my link through WhatsApp and she was like, Oh, my daughter! Yeah, and then I was like, This is why I moved so far away. Yeah, but no, my with how I grew up, my mum just no, so yeah, I can believe there are people like that, even though I would hear her having sex and everything.

Speaker 02 13:03

Hey, that's fine.

Speaker 01 13:04

That that's absolutely fine, that's fine. But me masturbating growing up when like about 12 or something like that. No, that's not okay exploring my own body and everything. I'm dirty.

Speaker 02 13:15

It's because they don't want to deal with. Do you know? Like, I think it's like people are like victims of the system almost, where like it's so taboo and so like, especially in the UK, because like I don't know, there's certain European countries where it's like it's totally normal to be naked in front of your family.

Speaker 01 13:32

Yeah, France.

Speaker 02 13:34

Aye, and like especially the Scandinavian countries and that. Like, I was my mind was boggled. Like, I had gone on a course and I remember there was a sauna in her hotel, and I like had my bikini and that on, and all the people that were running the course were just chilling and they're naked, and it was bizarre because it was like seeing teachers naked, but like that's normal. That's like I I was I was over 18 at this point, it wasn't like I was like at school, but um I it's just a totally different and speaking to them, they were like, Yeah, you're a full family, go to the sauna together, and it's a mixed sauna, so it's like men and women and children all naked in the sauna, and that's it's all like how you think of it because I had this conversation with somebody over the weekend where it was just like if you see like a child in a bikini and you think sexual stuff, that's that's like your totally you're putting that on up I don't know, I feel like bikinis have been sexualized. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 01 14:33

In general, anyway, yeah, like absolutely I I think a lot of women's clothing has been very sexualized. Yeah, like I love wearing boxer briefs and stuff because they don't fucking squeeze me in areas and like let me fucking breathe. And like there's a whole controversy about why do these size 10 fucking trousers fit me, but these size 14s fucking don't.

Speaker 02 14:56

Yeah.

Speaker 01 14:57

And it's just like it it makes no sense. A lot of um, especially Abba Abbacrombie and Finch, I think it was. Fitch. Fitch, I think. Um could be Finch, I don't know, there's more but where like they're in a whole lot of fucking bother and shit right now, uh, legally, and just their adverts and everything like that. It's no, it's not good. Not good. And why? Um teenage models, skinny as far.

Speaker 02 15:27

Yeah, just the usual, basically. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 01 15:29

And I I think he was recently in trouble for something, I'm not so sure. But he was in the news for something. Yeah.

Speaker 02 15:37

So circling back a wee bit, because we've got quite a bit off topic there, like um it's still frowned upon. It's frowned upon across the world. It's harder, I would say, in the UK, just for the fact that your culture is quite prud, just generally, especially compared to like other European countries and stuff, like other first world countries.

Speaker 01 15:59

Like, we we are very prud and very reserved and very like self-derogatory, not only just in like ourselves personally, but like our bodies and like the way that we speak about ourselves, like and I feel like all this feeds into when there's already hang-ups about this thing already, and then you mix in all the cultural bullshit, it just gets a wee bit like I first met you guys, and like wh whenever I first fucking meet somebody or talk about Scotland, because I lived in England for 19 years. Yes. Yeah, 19, 20 years, something like that. I'm used to the scene of England and like how it's booming and everything like that. Whereas I came up to fucking Scotland and you guys are poorer than fucking England, and like you've only got like basically one swingers club and like a few kink events, and it's just like what is there here for me? Like, I I really do want to move back to England, but I also don't at the same time. But it's just like I know, I know like I get it, but like it's even the same around just um this the laws around sex work as well, and what is happening, which I'm sure we'll make an episode about soon, yeah. They're trying to get the Nordic model here, and they're just continuing and continuing just in fucking Scotland. And it's just like, what is Scotland? Scotland is so like in the Stone Age with so much, yeah. And it's like sex work definitely, especially and the kink culture is better in England. I'm sorry.

Speaker 02 17:34

No, I mean I I agree, like we go to England a lot because that is the case. Like, I will speak about this at a later point. Let's get back on track here. So hang-ups to do with Pegan, I find for like for Shis guys, the big one is always like, oh, but it will make you gay. Like I even heard this recently, like I watched Big Brother, it is such a redneck, but it's my guilty pleasure. And one of the lassies that was on that a couple of weeks ago when I was watching it, it'll be longer ago now, but it's more um had said about how Pegan was disgusting, like it came up in conversation, and her response was like, Oh, but that makes you gay, was what she said, and like she was a bit older, it wasn't like a younger girl saying this, but um she was like page three and like was a model and or had been in a in her past, so like was quite a sex positive person in the way that she'd led her life. She played herself as wouldn't have seen it that way, yeah. But um it was this prude reserved, you know, like someone that thought less of like sexuality in that sense, but still had these opinions.

Speaker 01 18:53

See, this is like gonna I guess a bit off track, but like I I love it me being in sex work because I feel like anybody can do page three with any um actual like all you need is tits. You don't really need to have a good um look on life and be like so sex positive, you just get your tits out and get photographed and get paid for it.

Speaker 02 19:15

That that's all I see with just page three. I would agree. Like, I'm not I just I find it strange when people judge things that are in a similar wheelhouse-ish to me that's my only point there.

Speaker 01 19:29

It's not my point is just like even even if you like class yourself as a sex worker or you are a sex worker, you can still have judgments about other people.

Speaker 02 19:38

Totally, totally. Which that's the case everywhere, like people are hypocritical all the time. But I just thought it was worth mentioning that to me that is hypocritical when you are living your life in quite like a sexually free way, or a way in which you're not letting like society's hang-ups about certain things to do with sex hold you back from the way you want to live your life, but then are like continuing on these narratives that are like harmful and yeah, are outdated really.

Speaker 01 20:05

Absolutely. So yeah, yeah, because uh sadly there are sex workers as well out there who look down on other people who do certain acts, like because like I do sexual stuff. Well, it's it's being a dominatrix is being sexual in any fucking way. As we have discussed on which one was it, the hierarchy of sexual would have been. Um so like it it's sexual in a way, but like it's sexual in a way, and sadly there are sex workers who think, oh, because I give this service, I'm not this, or I'm not that because you will get DOMs who are like, Oh, I'm not a sex worker, because I only like do corporate punishment or something, and it's like uh fuck off. You are, you are like it is sex work at the end of the day, and sadly some people in the industry just don't have the nicest views, yeah. But that's everywhere, yeah.

Speaker 02 21:05

What would you have to say to someone who maybe came at you as a client and had these kind of hang-ups and was worried about like him wanting this thing, meaning that he was gay?

Speaker 01 21:20

Like what's how would that if um what like they were gay, they had no interest in me, but they just wanted to fucking up the ass.

Speaker 02 21:30

No, so a client has came to you, they've been like, I'm really interested in Pegan, um, but like people say that that makes you gay, like I don't think I'm gay. Like, what how would you like handle that conversation?

Speaker 01 21:44

Um so straight off the bat, I'd be like, fuck 'em. Yeah. It shouldn't matter to you what people think. I understand, like, we've all got demons and we all have little voices on our head. Yeah. But ignore them.

Speaker 02 21:57

Yeah.

Speaker 01 21:57

If they wanna if people want to tease you about it or anything like that, they're not your friends.

Speaker 02 22:03

Yeah.

Speaker 01 22:03

Then then no.

Speaker 02 22:04

You have took this so literally, it's great. So like I'm more meaning-like, if that was something that they were worried about about themselves. So like they think that because they want to be pegged, that makes them gay. And they came at you with that.

Speaker 01 22:19

Like, how would you like really took that literally?

Speaker 02 22:23

Sorry.

Speaker 01 22:24

Um, I'd say don't worry, it doesn't make you gay, it just makes you want to explore your own body. Yeah. It makes you curious about it, it makes it much more fun in the way that you actually have a much more open mind than some other people where you do want to explore and realise where you can get pleasure from. Yeah, so I would just tell them to hop on my clock.

Speaker 02 22:59

Yeah, basically.

Speaker 01 23:00

Just like you want to explore it, you're curious, let's do it. Yeah.

Speaker 02 23:05

My big thing is like there is literally like a point up there that like can make people come. Like, there's a pleasure centre in that area, and like this is what always annoys me because like obviously it's in the Bible that that's wrong. And I think this is like where some of the hang-ups come from. But like, if it's God that's created us, why is he created that there?

Speaker 01 23:28

I mean, mate, God kills children and everything in the Bible.

Speaker 02 23:32

Just following along that like argument, do you know? Like, I don't like why design us in such a way where that's even a possibility.

Speaker 01 23:41

Yeah.

Speaker 02 23:42

And not only a possibility, but is so pleasurable. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 01 23:47

It's like touch that prostate, mate.

Speaker 02 23:48

Yeah, touch it. If you don't like if like prostates getting like getting used like that is healthy. Absolutely. Because it can destresses you in everything. It de-stresses you, it reduces your risk of cancer and stuff like that. Like there's actually like health benefits to it as well. So come to me weekly. Get your weekly prostate check.

Speaker 01 24:17

Yeah. My mistress Victoria.

Speaker 02 24:24

So part of the canny hang-ups as well, I think, like, or at least the cany the continuing stigma around the subject is comes from or part of it, I believe, comes from the act itself being illegal for so many years. Um, like I've just had to be looked just now. I didn't realise how long it had been illegal. 1533 was when this first came into law as the buggery act of 1553. 1533, sorry. And in the beginning, and I wonder if this is where the female side of things comes in, it was any anal penetration was illegal, regardless of sex or gender. And it even it was that like laws were better in that way with gender. Yeah, that they were just yeah, they weren't astigmatizing anybody. But it was such like this law trumped um so basically if a monk or a priest murdered somebody, there was a law that or like a part of a law that protected them from being executed, but not if they committed buggery. Buggery meant that they would die. It was that like I don't know how you like word this. Do you know what I mean? It was like even above land in terms of where like the lines were for like important members, it was seen as that bad. Um this was it was changed a couple of times all through the years, but didn't actually get repealed until it was 1967, was when it was no longer illegal. But previous to that was when police were like actually going in and raiding people's houses, and if they were seen to be like committing gay acts or like buggery as it was termed, yeah, then they would be arrested and could actually go to jail. Wow. Like I believe there wasn't at that point it was um like gendered, like I don't believe it was the same for females, like it was just men that would be um like committed for that. But as we ever, anytime anything's been illegal, there's always this weird like cultural hang-up about it for ages until that kind of passes, because for a time people were terrified of being accused of this because then they could go to jail, and that terror just like it softens and it shapes and it changes, but it stays rooted through generations until it eventually kind of people forget why they feel that way about a thing. But that's why, because it was it was over the news that people's hoossies were getting raided and people were worried that that could happen to them or someone could accuse them, or it does just create this kind of the fear of a thing.

Speaker 01 27:04

So take taking away um fake penises, dildos and stuff, I'm wondering if added to this like HIV AIDS that scared people into not doing it as well.

Speaker 02 27:20

Potentially, I mean like I feel like because the two have kind of been linked together almost, that's where like aye, like the the kind of the hang-ups people have about being gay have kind of linked on to the hang-ups people have about Pegan.

Speaker 01 27:38

It's just a taboo. Yeah and yeah, I guess we're religious families as well, it's just not even fucking thought about. Yeah. Just just procreate, that's all.

Speaker 02 27:47

Well, this is a it's it's sex without procreation, but so is oral, and that's never been made illegal. Yeah. So it oh god. You know, it's not like and like as you've explained, if it's about a dirty like bacteria thing, like there's guys that have never pulled their foreskin than. Right? Like, my ass is cleaner than that.

Speaker 01 28:09

Yeah, it's no shot at me. Like, no. The amount of times that I have had to tell people to like go wash themselves and like they've come back and like they've even they've been more fucking smelly somehow. Yeah.

Speaker 02 28:20

And it's just like they've disturbed it.

Speaker 01 28:26

Disturbed the mould and shit. Like again, the amount of times where like guys like their foreskin hasn't gone down and like it's just like, do you know things about your own body?

Speaker 02 28:41

But this I think all of this stems from this weird like they need to be taught crudeness people have that they don't want to teach their kids how to wash themselves properly because it's just not even a topic they want to discuss or think about, or you know, like so many people have not been taught how to wash themselves properly.

Speaker 01 28:59

I don't even think I was taught.

Speaker 02 29:00

No, I wasn't either.

Speaker 01 29:02

Like it's I've learned.

Speaker 02 29:05

Like, don't get me wrong, but like it's taken me having to go and do that myself. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 01 29:11

Like, my my I remember when my dad sat me down and told me about drugs, that was it.

Speaker 02 29:16

Mine sat me down and gave me drugs.

Speaker 01 29:19

I mean, I wasn't gonna incriminate anybody there. Where my my dad was just like, if you want to take them, I'll be there with you.

Speaker 02 29:26

Yeah.

Speaker 01 29:26

Where which which is really fucking sensible and everything. But I don't remember talking about like periods or anything like that.

Speaker 02 29:34

Like the drug charts are always the easy fucking chart. Yeah. Like, or the easier chart.

Speaker 01 29:40

Like when my dad found out what my job was, he was like, Oh, there's like there's handcuffs in your mum's wardrobe and stuff. Like that was easy for him to like rap his heed and kind of handcuffs. Like, he didn't want to know that like his daughter like had sex with people or anything like that. He would rather think about like the whipping and things, but like he

Speaker 02 30:00

It's almost the DOM like the DOM side's easier for people to swallow. Like it just says Yeah Um Alright. Which is hilarious because like in any other situation it would be the opposite way around. What do you mean? Like people have a lot more comfort with sex than they do like BDSM in general.

Speaker 01 30:19

Yeah.

Speaker 02 30:20

Yeah. With this one example.

Speaker 01 30:23

Absolutely.

Speaker 02 30:23

Which I don't understand personally, but it is what it is.

Speaker 01 30:28

Yeah. I think sadly there'll always be somebody who puts shame into pegging. Yeah. No matter what. I mean, I get this is so the opposite. Yeah. But I get clients who are like, call me the F word.

unknown 30:44

Yeah.

Speaker 02 30:46

I like people get a kick out of it. Like they want that to feel like that. Like I've always struggled with that a wee bit, personally, because I feel like the vast majority of porn that you see that involves that act, that's the vibe. It's humiliating. It's like it's you there's there's like it's homophobic a bit, your side of what you're discuss discussing. I find it really sexist sometimes because they are like you're being penetrated, that makes you like a woman, and that's the vibe. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's like women getting to be the man, and it's all like role reversal and shit. And I'm like, I mean it can be. Does it need to just be that? Yeah. Can it not just be like two people like enjoying every part of their body?

Speaker 01 31:33

Yeah, no, because this is what the hang up with with me was the feminization part as well. With men wanted to be called sluts and things, and yeah, I've been doing it for so many years, but this year it's made me think, why do I want to dress up a man, me personally? Why do I want to dress up a man and then call him all these horrible words that women have been called?

Speaker 02 31:58

It feels like being part of the problem in a way. Like I so I totally agree.

Speaker 01 32:03

I've like, I'm still trying to figure out a way how of how to look at it in a good light. Yeah. Because it it's the same way with when guys are like calling me a a faggot, basically. Yeah. What when they want to be like penetrated and stuff, and it's like there are people out there who will want this, and I think it'll always be wanted.

Speaker 02 32:25

Aye, I think it's one of the things where like I don't want to judge the things individually, but like overall in like a big group, if this it's like fetishizing like the problem. Yeah, yeah. And for some people, like say they've been bullied all their life and that's a term that they've been called. For that person, that could be them working through that and them being in a safe place in a way that like they're like like a lot of kink can be like working through past trauma.

Speaker 01 32:54

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 02 32:55

So it's not to say that everybody doing that is wrong, it's not to say that like even if that's not the case, it's wrong.

Speaker 01 33:00

It's just not everybody's different in their ways of wanting it and how like I struggle sometimes with it.

Speaker 02 33:10

But like a lot of the feminization stuff to me feels it's fine when it's not also for humiliation, yeah. Where it's like it's humiliating to be female, and that hits wrong for me. Like I feel and I feel like that's what a lot of people come into Pegging thinking it's all about, and that maybe puts them off. Like it maybe would be that they do just want to explore and they want to like have like a P orgasm and see what it's like because they're curious, and that's like totally valid. Like it doesn't need to come with all these other things that are just for me, like perpetrating this stereotype and kind of driving this stigma home where people are like, Oh, but does this make me gay? and then they're gone and they're watching Porn Explore, and it's like people getting caught the F word and people getting like dressed up as a female, yeah, and like it being this really derogatory like punishment thing.

Speaker 01 34:05

A CNC scene as well. Like it can be nice, it can be lovely, it can be close, it can be like I've had clients who suspect that they're trans, and so we've tried it and we've done certain things, and like they've got like things different though. Do you know? Like it's there's a lot of different situations that it can be in.

Speaker 02 34:26

It's just the humiliation bit that I don't like.

Speaker 01 34:28

Whereas like um a recent client which I had, he listens to the podcast and he was just like, Are you comfortable calling me a slut? And I'm like, in this situation, yes, because you're not dressing up as a woman or anything like that, you're just wanting to be an anal slut. And that's different.

Speaker 02 34:47

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. I think using the like the words when they're used in the context of humiliation on their own, like I don't take a shoot way, like they're fun, they're they're hard-hitting words, they give you a thrill. That's the point in them. But if someone's wanting to like dress up as a slut, that's when it's and their version of that stuff as a woman is them dressing up as a woman. That's when it starts like creeping into like a wee bit misogynistic territory. Because you can a million percent be a slut and be like a cis hit like guy. Like there's just a fairy and be a slut.

Speaker 01 35:26

Like slut is a feeling, it's not it's not a look, and that's where it starts like exactly. So like this year I've had to like think and break down all the situations which I've had and went, was I truly comfortable with that? And like, why has it changed? And with certain situations, because again, it's like with anal, like it comes with why do you think this way? Why are you doing this?

Speaker 02 35:57

Yeah, even doing anal always being in the submissive role while receiving anal bugs me. Because does that mean women are always in the submissive role? Right, like just because you are being penetrated does not make you lesser, it's not humiliating, it does not need to make you submissive. You can very much be in control and be penetrated at the same time. Like the two are not mutually exclusive, and shouldn't be. And I feel like maybe even people that are dominant, like f full time, might be curious about that and not feel like that's something they can explore because they would then be seen as being submissive to their partner.

Speaker 01 36:35

Yeah.

Speaker 02 36:36

But that's no the case, and I feel like, yeah.

Speaker 01 36:39

So I uh to round this off because we went on a lovely little round to round this off, I had a client recently, and we still have another point after this, by the way. So I did I had a client recently and he was an older gentleman, and mmm, it was it was different. Yeah, I don't like again, like I ended up putting like an Instagram video. I don't think you saw it because you're just horrendously busy.

Speaker 02 37:06

Yeah.

Speaker 01 37:08

But I ended up putting a post out about like how I don't really want to see older men, but it's case by case basis. It's not like it's out there sadly is a stereotype where older men are just much more prejudiced and much more dicks. Yeah, because this man literally walked in and went, Oh yeah, I've seen other prostitutes before.

Speaker 02 37:29

Yeah.

Speaker 01 37:29

And I was like, Oh, and I had my balls on and I was like, I don't really like that word for me myself. Prostitute is the same as like calling somebody a a fagger, even if it is in a good way, because it just has previous connotations of something ill and not so good. Like that's where the word prostitute like came from. It was an insult, basically.

Speaker 02 37:54

And that's your personal preference and your boundary, and you're entitled to that.

Speaker 01 37:58

Yeah. So he was like, Oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, but he did it in the old man way of like, oh sorry, I won't mention that, blah blah blah.

Speaker 02 38:04

I like her like as if you've inconvenienced him. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I know that well.

Speaker 01 38:10

Yeah, and he came in just for pegging, yeah. And um he then continued to say, once I was pegging him, he was like, Oh, this was well worth the trip. I'm so happy I came, you're so worth the money. Yeah, and I was like, What the please don't tell that to me. Like, I I know that I am, like, I'm worth 10 times fucking more and everything. I don't like it, it just felt really wrong, and I felt like a piece of meat.

Speaker 02 38:36

Yeah.

Speaker 01 38:37

So then he he did loads of things wrong, yeah. And then he proceeded to call me a good girl while pegging him.

Speaker 02 38:44

Yep.

Speaker 01 38:45

And I was like, no, yeah, no, no. And then what was the last thing? Oh yeah, he was like, So do you turn all the boys into pussies then? Oh, and I was like, what? And he was like, Yeah, the the submissives, they're pussies, aren't they? And I was like, Oh, you pissed me off so much, and I was like, No, the men who bow down to me are not pussies at all. They are people who like realize that women are powerful and they respect us, and everything that comes with that, they are no way, shape or form, pussies. Yeah, and that really, really pissed me off because that was the thinking of somebody and the stereotype of if you bow down to women, you're a pussy, yeah, you're a simp, you're all that stuff, and that fucking boils my blood, as you can hear. Because that no, you're you are making yourself look like a dickhead, yeah, because you're saying you're basically the exact fucking opposite, yeah. So it's like, no, you clearly don't fucking worship women, you you don't care about them, you don't clearly from the way he was speaking, because at some point he mentioned something about a cow, and I don't know. Like, I think he mentioned about how he thinks dom dominant women are cows, and how I really surprised him because of how I was.

Speaker 02 40:13

Oh, right. Yeah. Is he someone who does just want to see like an escort, not a dominatrix, but not many of them do Pegan?

Speaker 01 40:22

Um, most likely.

Speaker 02 40:24

Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 01 40:24

Most likely, yeah.

Speaker 02 40:25

Yeah. Um and he goes in and he takes the utter piss because he needs to feel bigger charge and bigger.

Speaker 01 40:33

Absolutely, because like he tried to touch my tits as well, and I was like, No, yeah, no, and then further on he tried to touch them, and I was like, no, like no, this is not happening. Yeah, so to all the submissive people in general, especially men, you're not pussies or weak or anything like that. You just like what you fucking like.

Speaker 02 40:53

Yeah, you've got the fucking buzz to actually go and do what you want to do.

Speaker 01 40:59

Yeah, and if that's being pegged or if that's kissing a woman's feet or paying for a woman's meal with um with like a husband, fucking do it. Yeah, you live your life, you do what makes you happy.

Speaker 02 41:11

Totally.

Speaker 01 41:12

Oh some men.

Speaker 02 41:16

Cool. So the last thing is negotiation, yeah. Um, because we all love open and clear direct communication, yeah, absolutely. That's how everybody has fun.

Speaker 01 41:29

Yeah. So with me, I would say I I go by the traffic light system, so green, you're enjoying it. Yeah, amber, not so much, and red, you do not like it. Red does not mean stop. If you want to stop, then you say stop.

Speaker 02 41:42

Yeah.

Speaker 01 41:43

So yeah, green, you're enjoying it. Amber, not so much. Amber to me means that I'll carry on for a second or two so it doesn't feel like dead broken over.

Speaker 02 41:55

There can be a transition period. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 01 41:57

And then red just means okay, we will stop. Do you want a little break or something like that? So yeah, I would say do something around that where there is just clear communication because your partner or whoever you're playing with, it could be yourself, actually. Yeah, totally. Like they could have like a hangnail or something, and you could bloody feel it.

Speaker 02 42:23

Yeah. And or there needs to be something that like allows you to communicate in the moment.

Speaker 01 42:30

Yeah, there needs to be really, really good communication. Yeah, you need to be comfortable with each other to be like, stop. Yeah, this hurts, or let's get in a different position. Yeah. Because that's one thing I don't think we talked about is positions.

Speaker 02 42:44

Yeah, we'll speak about that when we're talking about actually doing it though. This is the prep.

Speaker 01 42:49

This is just the prep.

Speaker 02 42:50

Just the prep.

Speaker 01 42:54

Can you tell me of ADHD?

Speaker 02 42:57

And fucking autism. We've spoken this for like an hour and a half so far.

Speaker 01 43:02

We we have a special subject.

Speaker 02 43:04

Who knew Pegan was one of them, but I'm not a complainer. I know, right?

Speaker 01 43:09

But no, communication definitely, definitely, definitely is the key. Yeah. I know that in my previous relationships, or whatever I've got up to, there needs to be fucking communication.

Speaker 02 43:21

Yeah, yeah. I think as well, like from what we've just spoken about, obviously, there's like the act itself, but there's like the headspace that surrounds it. And like because for some people they're facing that something that like could be like a real hang-up for them, they're gonna be vulnerable, they're gonna be like in a place where things are maybe going to affect them a wee bit more or a wee bit differently than normal. And I think that's why like having the negotiation beforehand and being really clear about how you want it to feel, but how you want to feel is really important, yeah, because there's so many approaches to this, like there is with everything, you know, like we're inventive as creatures, especially when you bring like BDSM into the mix, because there's just so many different scenarios and so many different like head spaces that you can be in that go along with your scene, and pegging is no different. Where even some of the few that we spoke about there, there was like someone being dominant, someone being submissive, but even within those roles, there's a million different facets to that.

Speaker 01 44:26

Yeah, like when you're pegging somebody, you don't need to have roles, it doesn't need to like include PDSM as well. Yeah, it can just be like sensual between you and a partner where you just don't even know what BDSM is or anything like that. Yeah, it doesn't need to involve that as well.

Speaker 02 44:44

Yeah, you can just but even within that, like do you want it to be sensual? Do you want it to be rough? Like, do you want you know there's still like negotiation within that that I think every single sexual encounter should have prior to it happening?

Speaker 01 44:57

Absolutely.

Speaker 02 44:57

So that people are putting their needs across and getting their needs met.

Speaker 01 45:01

Yeah.

Speaker 02 45:01

Because that's important for like fucking everyone. Absolutely.

Speaker 01 45:05

So like with with like actually doing it, make sure you maybe you you might want gloves, you might not want gloves. Make sure you do the prep of like and warming up and warming up. So what we've already talked talked about in the first like segment, yeah. Um and really, really have a fucking good debrief.

Speaker 02 45:27

Yeah.

Speaker 01 45:28

Uh pre pre pre brief with whoever you're gonna do it with. Like, do not set yourself to have high goals.

Speaker 02 45:37

Yep.

Speaker 01 45:38

The finger might not even go in or anything like that.

Speaker 02 45:41

Yeah, like it's gonna take a while to build up to pegging if you're starting from square one.

Speaker 01 45:46

Absolutely.

Speaker 02 45:47

Because you might even get it in the first time, but like it's gonna hurt because you're not gonna be that relaxed unless you've done it before. It's a new thing, and so much it is relaxing.

Speaker 01 45:58

And but even then sometimes the ass just doesn't want to open, it just doesn't want to work.

Speaker 02 46:03

Yeah.

Speaker 01 46:03

Or if you have, is it Crohn's?

Speaker 02 46:06

Probably.

Speaker 01 46:07

Um, because I did have a client recently who had that, and like anal slot loves it. Yeah, but um that day his belly just was not feeling up to it, and I think it might be the same with like IBS stuff like that.

Speaker 02 46:23

Crohn's is like IBS plus, yeah.

Speaker 01 46:25

So like it all depends on so many factors, and do not get embarrassed or ashamed just because your ass doesn't open up, want to open up for you. Yeah, like it's nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about. Yeah, things just happen. Yeah, totally. It's absolutely normal, it's absolutely fine. You can just try it another day.

Speaker 02 46:45

Yeah, like there's no rush, take your time, but exactly, exactly.

Speaker 01 46:49

Like, yeah, yeah. Um, and especially if like you're on a one-night stand or if you want to try something new with your partner who you've had for a while now, be honest with them. Yeah, be very, very honest. And especially if your partner doesn't want to do anal, then you could seek it elsewhere, absolutely. But like I would say make them aware and like talk with them about it.

Speaker 02 47:18

Try it yourself and see if you enjoy it.

Speaker 01 47:20

Exactly.

Speaker 02 47:21

You know, like it's it's you can self-explode as well, like it doesn't need to just be with a partner.

Speaker 01 47:26

Like giving yourself a hand job and then somebody else giving you the hand job is different in the ways of like the feeling. So it might be different when somebody else does it um for you because you can get the angles and things, totally. So I would I'd definitely say explore and be honest and be truthful, yeah. And like if you need more lube down there, get more lube down there. Don't be don't be afraid to um not have like only a little bit of lube or something like that. Like, I know that every step you take, whether it's by yourself or with somebody else, it can be like nerve-wracking and more nervous. But just go for it. Yeah, like don't you've just gotta get all those voices out of your head and just be like, this is my me time. Yeah, this is either with me or with my partner, we're gonna try this or we're gonna carry it on. If you enjoy it, go for it. Yeah, absolutely. Like sometimes again, we we'll talk about this more actually doing it, but like it feels it can feel like a ring of fire when you first do it, and it's absolutely normal and it's fine, it's the asshole trying to relax and being like, whoa, why something going in there rather than coming out? But we'll talk about that in episode two. This episode is has mainly been about really just like the steps that you're taking to lead up to actually doing it. Yeah, and like be confident about it. Like, there's no need to be nervous. Like sadly, there there are people and partners who are like, ooh, I don't want to do that things, but that's when you talk about the next steps, really. I want to say, at least with me, it would be like, I want to actually try this, so either I'm gonna do it myself or go to somebody who can help me. Yeah, because especially if it is kink, like you're you're always gonna be kinky. The majority of the time, even if it's one time a year, yeah, you'll still want to be want to do something. Like I had a client who was like, Oh, I want to go on a date, but I really like anal fisting. And I was like, right, if you can live the rest of your life without anal fisting, go for it. Go on the date, don't tell the women or anything like that. And he was like, Okay, I think I need to live with anal fisting. I really, really enjoy it. And I was like, right, cool. You I would suggest being honest with the person who you want to be with and such.

Speaker 02 50:01

Like if that's a need, treat it as such.

Speaker 01 50:03

Exactly, exactly. And if they don't want to anal fist you, then again you can just seek out other people who you're comfortable with. But it it all depends on communication, it really does, and trust in each other and everything like that. Yeah.

Speaker 02 50:20

Um thanks for listening to part two guys. Um as always, we've got um a little discrete quote for you guys. If you find the paddle uh checkout, you'll get a 10% design code on the sanction of the central code. We've also got another censored market coming up in the next month on the 15th of December. So if you sort of check out some tickets left for the general market and the gosh.

Speaker 01 50:58

So go check out our dark fans. Dark fans is an absolute must. You need to see how sexy our people design is lingerie. And yeah, if you uh want to support us, you can tap us, you can look at all our links and listen to every other podcast uh episode we have produced. Thanks for listening.