Behind the Paddle

E62: Neurochemistry of BDSM: Dopamine, Serotonin, and the Brain on Kink Part 2

Porcelain Victoria Episode 62

Send us a text

Welcome back to Behindthepaddle, where we blend the science of sensation with the elegance of kink. I’m your host, Porcelain Victoria. In this special installment, we’re peeling back the layers of what happens beneath the surface exploring the powerful neurochemical dance that pulses through every strike, whisper, and command.

Whether you identify as a Dominant, submissive, switch, or a curious onlooker, understanding the brain’s role in BDSM can deepen your connection to both your partner and yourself. It can enhance safety, build trust, and take intimacy to new heights.

Today, we’ll journey through the roles of dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, endorphins, and even cortisol and how these chemicals shape your kink experiences in ways that are sometimes unexpected, always fascinating.

Support the show

Check out our socials!

Thank you so much for listening 💖

SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome back to Behind the Pad podcast with me, Pulsing Victoria. I am so excited to carry on with part two about all the lovely chemicals in your brain. And so we're going to go straight in and we're going to talk about endorphins, the body's natural painkillers and pleasure, pleasure, pleasure enhancers. So, so far we've uncovered the roles of dopamine and serotonin in the intricate dance of dominance and submission, but what happens when we cross the threshold into physical sensation, into impact, edging and pain? Today's neurochemical guide is the endorphin, the body's natural painkiller, euphoric agent and key player in the transcendent states of subspace and domspace. Endorphins are what let us cry out in pleasure when we're pushed to our limits. to feel the peace within pain and to rise breathless and glowing from the ashes of a scene. Let's dive into the body's opioid system and understand how it's one of the most powerful allies in BDSM. So what are endorphins? Endorphins, short for endogenous morphines, are a group of peptide hormones secreted by the pulmonary gland and central nervous system in the response to stress or pain. They're part of the body's opioid system, binding the same receptors as morphine and heroin. but in a naturally regulated internal way. There are more than 20 different endorphins, but beta endorphin is the most studied in humans and highly potent. It reduces physical pain, calms the mind, and can produce feelings of euphoria, altered perception of time and space, temporary dissociation from physical comfort, emotional catharsis triggers for endorphin release in kink are things like physical pain so flogging spanking needle play caning any any impact basically so you've got physical exertion so force positions bondage strain breath play things like that so you've got also emotional stressors so you've got fear humiliation intensity and of course orgasm or orgasm denial prolonged physiological tension and release so yeah there's quite like a lot of things that can trigger the endorphin like wow in all these cases the brain The brain interprets stress and responds with a neurochemical counterbalance in dolphins. The pain to pleasure response. The pain to pleasure paradox in BDSM. Well, BDSM often plays in the space where pain becomes pleasure, but this isn't just psychological. Endorphins allow the brain to reframe pain as a pleasurable or even euphoric experience. When pain is expected, consensual, contextualized as safe and desired, the brain interprets it as a manageable stressor and compensates with a blood flow of endorphins, sometimes alongside dopamine. so let's talk about impact play as a neurochemical release mechanism so let's break down a flogging scene you've got the thoughts you've got the anticipation that builds dopamine and then when you've got the first strike has been had it activates adrenaline and tension and then when it's repeated the rhythmic impact begins to signal sustained stress to the nervous system. Endorphins are released to counteract pain and preserve emotional integrity. This often is why people say they didn't feel the pain until later or why they crave harder impact after warming up. I am one of those people sometimes. The body's pain gates have shifted. and endorphins are in full flow so subspace and endorphin highs what is subspace really? what is it? subspace is a neurophysiological and psychological altered state often experienced by submissives during intense BDSM play so I say intense but really we're all different so if you think it's intense even if it's something as like little as a feather going along your body or you're getting tickled or um kissing feet or even just looking at something then yeah it can be intense for that person so everybody has different intense um subspaces and how to get into those and it is really I would say about communication and knowing who you're playing with and yeah carry on so it's a combination of high endorphins decreased prefrontal cortex activity so reduced exclusive function dissociation from pain heightened emotional suggestibility time distortion and in simpler terms subspace can feel like floating dreaming blissful surrender euphoric numbness total presence or total absence so again everybody sort of space is different for everybody it's not all just the same it is one thing which I always say about in BDSM where it's like everybody's different everybody is so so different and if you do want to play with somebody you need to understand each other to an extent so the endorphin engine behind subspace when endorphins flood the brain during a prolonged or intense scene they can create a state similar to opiate intoxication but completely self-generated and typically without the disorientation of synthetic drugs the submissive may feel weightless or disconnected from their body deeply emotional open or suggestible like they are experiencing blank mind per se or stillness detached from pain but aware of control dynamics the chemical state reinforces submission making the dominance voice or touch seem amplified in emotional significance I mean, I feel like that's just, that sounds good. When you're in the scene and you hear your dominance voice or whoever else you're playing with, it can feel so, so bliss. It really can. So what are the risks and responsibility of subspace? because subspace involves reduced cognition and pain sensitivity it's crucial for the dominant to monitor physiological signs like breathing color of their skin if you're doing rope play make sure you're not cutting enough uh cutting the oxygen off and like the blood and all that stuff um if it goes blue or purple any body parts you need to like look and like nope you need to have safety shears these if anybody's watching you need to have these rope safety shears to absolutely have on hand in case of any emergencies they're really really cheap and easy you can get them there is no excuse for doing a scene and not having some safety shears no excuse they can literally be like£1.50 and of course I have mine in pink and then also think about how coherent they are so if they're making noise if they're not making noise again especially if you haven't played with somebody for that long you need to be very very very very in tune with how they are because me I've been doing it for so long I've been in the community for more than eight years and I've been in the lifestyle for more than eight years I've been professionally doing this for eight years and it's one thing that you pick up when you play with for me when you play with anybody you make sure you notice their breathing you notice the colour you notice if they're speaking or not you notice you notice the little things like if say you're pegging somebody and they make a noise and it's not a pleasurable noise question that absolutely question it you can go into detail there is nothing stopping you from saying things like oh does it hurt when i push it in is it does it hurt around the ring of your asshole does it hurt inside your asshole like things like that like that was the easiest example i could think of because there has been times where submissives do want to also carry on because they're enjoying the time but it is also painful for them and it's like um We're going to talk. Do you want to carry this on or do you want to stop? Do you want to change positions? There's a lot of things you can do to alter. And then afterwards, I would suggest talking about the scene, seeing if there's anything you want to change, if there's anything you would add, if there's any concerns. And of course, aftercare. very very important to do aftercare we will also be doing an episode on aftercare at some point but i would suggest very very much aftercare include that and if you listen to part one you should understand that aftercare can be very very very vital to all the lovely chemicals and such so yeah dominance always look out for your submissive always so submissives may be unable to give a safe word or communicate well in deep subspace this is where trust pre-negotiation so no surprises in the scenes or anything like that do what you guys discussed don't throw in even if it's small don't throw it in because that can disrupt so much of the subspace and the personal well-being of that submissive as well so yeah pre-negotiation and intuition becomes life-saving skills it really really does especially if you're doing anything with edge play if you're doing any electrics or if like you've lost a sounding device in the penis in the um well actually vagina owners can actually um use sounding devices as well to be fair i just don't really um do it that often um yeah they're little urethra rods i know i'm sorry so dominance and endorphin rushes dominants also experience endorphin release especially during high energy impact play to be fair i would say being the dominant everything is bloody high energy like you have to think on your feet and you have to just think a lot a lot all the time and again you're looking out for the submissive as well so it's not just yourself you have to think about and with high energy scenes as well just like rope, knife play, needle play I know there's so many plays and cathartic emotional arcs as well orchestration of submissive surrender this somatic intensity can lead to what some call dom space a state of heightened focus and emotional power satisfaction and presence for many dominants particularly those new to their role the endorphin rush helps counter self-doubt reinforce authority anchor emotional presence and build trust in their ability to deliver a meaningful scene. This pleasure they feel isn't sadistic, it's neurochemically validating for their role and skill. So, post-scene endorphin effects and the drop. The aftermath of when endorphin strikes. Endorphins, like any neurochemical, follow a peak and decline curve. after seeing both dominance and submissives may experience physical exhaustion emotional tenderness temporary hypersensitivity low mood or drop if endorphins fall too fast and i can absolutely understand this like the amount of times after a session especially a long one um or a scene i I'm just like, I would like my bed, please. Usually my aftercare for myself would be getting into my PJs in my lovely hoodie and having a hot chocolate and watching a movie. And I would just be cuddling up with myself and my dogs on the sofa in a lovely blanket. That is my little wee aftercare. That is what I've made myself do to understand that it does make it better. It makes it so much better. Why is the aftercare essential? So to ease the descent from peak endorphin states, you can use soothing touch, warmth and grounding activities, reassure and reorient, especially for subs just emerging from subspace. hydrate feed and provide gentle company you can definitely i would say avoid deep discussions or critiques during the crash period because like your brain like you you want it to freaking slow down right now you you like you want to take like a slow pace i would say because it is just a come down from it and it's like nobody wants to talk very in depth about certain things like you don't sometimes you don't even want to think you just want to like chill so these practices do help buffer the calm down and support the body's natural return to baseline so we're going to talk about building a endorphin smart scene warm-up and intensity management a scene that respects the endorphin threshold allows the body to ease into its response use light touch or light impact to begin gradually increase rhythm, weight or pain avoid going from zero to intense without build up if for example you're doing caning and you just go for it we call that cold caning and unless You have both had a discussion about what cold caning is and how it does impact the bodies and how with the chemicals and such. I wouldn't really advise it. I would not advise it if you haven't spoken or talked in detail about what you're going to do. It is very, very important. so longer scenes with rhythmic patterns such as flogging or bondage produce more sustained endorphin release than short chaotic ones it's why ritualized methodical play often creates stronger emotional impact it allows chemistry to catch up so whenever somebody comes to me for a paid session i do say to them the longer the better not only does it help us get to know each other it also helps the chemicals in our brains to actually one get into sub space dom space and then calm down because one thing i do not like about my job is that sometimes with clients they expect from when the hour starts to when the hour ends it's full-on domination or it's full-on services there's no like there's no like calm down there's no um breakdown until after the paid service is over which isn't how a lot of sex workers work we are paid for the time that you have booked not any time afterwards so that's the one thing which I dislike in my job where there needs to be enough time for all of this to happen and yeah as I've said I dislike it when clients do think that they can instantly have the dominant and submissive at the start which is fine but once my time paid for is over then they want to like chill and talk and it's like that is not what happens or anything like that so use endorphins intentionally so for catharsis um emotional release in mind right a submissive who's been dealing with high stress asks their dominant for a scene focused on emotional release together they plan a cathartic spanking scene in a safe private space the dominant uses firm but nurturing impact paired with grounding words like you're safe and let it go the submissive isn't the submissive is encouraged to cry scream or release whatever emotions come up knowing they are held and cared for throughout aftercare also can include like cuddles waters soft affirmations helping the submissive feel cleansed and emotionally lighter it's so beautiful i love it so the other ones one is for surrender build a deep subspace the nurture so it's pretty much how it is how it sounds during a carefully choreographed rope suspension scene let's give this example the dominant maintains eye contact and a steady rhythm you're using soft verbal cues and breath control as a guide and breath control to guide the submissive into a deep subspace. The submissive begins to drift, calm, pliable, completely surrendered. Once they're in this altered state, the dominant gently lowers them, wraps them in a blanket and cradles them in silence. Aftercare, again, you gotta feed them, you gotta water them. skin contact, quiet presence, reinforcing that safety and connection as the submissive slowly returns to themselves and then the last one is for intensity use a buffer, not as a shield so for example a dominant plans a caning scene with their submissive who loves intensity but sometimes disconnects emotionally when overwhelmed instead of using the pain as a wall to hide behind they agree to use a pre-arranged signal like holding hands briefly between strikes to stay emotionally tethered the physical intensity becomes a buffer that channels emotion not a shield that blocks it this allows the submissive to fully feel process and connect through the scene rather than escape from vulnerability don't chase the high recklessly use it wisely and like a skill it really is So endorphins are the body's secret opioids, opiates. Endorphins are the body's secret opiates. Whispers of safety and pain, flashes of joy in the dark. They're not just reactions but invitations to go deeper, to feel more, to trust your body's wisdom in the alchemy of BDSM. endorphins transform pain into poetry such a beautiful thought of like how um it transforms oh so pretty but even beauty needs a balance respect the chemicals you have to honor the drop you have to understand the drop and you have to be there for each other so now we're going to talk about cortisol stress and recovery and bdsm We've explored the chemicals of pleasure, connection, surrender, but now we're going to step into the realm of survival. We're going to talk about cortisol, the stress hormone, the fucking stress hormone. What a cunt that is. Often misunderstood as the villain, cortisol is actually one of the body's most essential regulators. It prepares us for action, keeps us alert, and protects us in moments of perceived threat. But what happens when BDSM, even when consensual, triggers a stress response? What if fear, humiliation, or intensity causes a surge in cortisol? Well, we're going to dive in. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about how kink can activate, but also heal, the body's stress system. So what is cortisol and what does it do? Cortisol's origin and function is produced in the adrenaline glands and released into the bloodstream in response to stress, particularly through activation of, I'm going to attempt to say this, hyperthalamic pulmonary adrenal HPA axis. Its role is to mobilize energy in response to perceived threat, to increase alertness and focus, and to regulate blood pressure and inflammation. And of course, prepare the body to either fight, flee, or especially relevant in kink, to freeze. So BDSM as a controlled stressor. even in a safe consensual play the brain may interpret certain activities as threats and I could mention every single little kink every single little toy so it's not as simple as going oh it could happen in impact play or needles or CBT it can happen with anything it really can the body can just be like what? well the brain and with psychological intensity we've also like words with cnc consensual non-consent humiliation interrogation scenes when like there's so many things you can't put a finger on oh this might trigger me this might not trigger me you never know if you certainly know you don't like to be slapped that's absolutely fine that's a limit but if you're doing a scene say impact and you get whipped and that might trigger you you never know especially if you've never done this before and I remember with one submissive I put a gas mask on. This has happened more than once because it's quite common, I would say, just learning about yourself where, for instance, I put a gas mask on a sub and he completely freaked out. He did not like it and everything like that. And then he revealed to me that he was in the army and I was like, oh, fair. That makes sense. Yeah. and there's been times where like i've had a sub go in a vac bed and he thought you'd be absolutely fine and he loves latex but as soon as he got in he panicked the fuck like so much because the latex was covering his face and he was so enclosed and i can't think of the word right now where people don't like enclosed spaces um i'm sure it'll come to me later on but yeah there's many different things absolutely so that could also include like bondage sensory deprivation restraints and of course fear-inducing elements like breath play fear play knife play anything anything could be scary to you and you might not realize it until you're doing it which is again so important when you have to communicate and things but we're going to go through that um a little bit so the stresses may temporarily spike cortisol this isn't a bad thing it's the body going to do its job but what makes BDSM unique is that it allows us to play with stress using it to enhance sensation deepen catharsis and then return to emotional equilibrium if supported properly so cortisol in the submissives experience stress activation through vulnerability submissives are often the recipients of physical and emotional intensity this can result in the heart rate going up shallow breathing muscle tension heightened emotional reactivity the oh my god this was one of the sweetest fucking sessions i've ever had and it didn't even finish Well, it did, but, like, not the way we planned. I was pegging a guy, and there were so many emotions, clearly, in his head. Like, he was loving it, but then one minute he was loving it, the next he started crying. And I was like, whoa. Like, obviously hugged him, cuddled him, gave him what he needed. And we talked, and he was like, yeah, I've had a lot going on recently. And... I believe like his friend might have passed away and such it was many years ago but he oh my god like all the emotion just caught up to him while I was pegging him and he was one of the if you're listening you were one of the sweetest clients I have ever met sadly he moved away but he I will never forget him he was amazing absolutely amazing The amount of trust we had with each other and the bond that we had. I wish every sub was like that because he was so fucking sweet. Really was. These are the signs that cortisol is active. The submissive may not be consciously afraid, but the body interprets surrender as risk. Reframing stress as empowerment. so now we're going to talk about reframing stress as empowerment what's powerful about BDSM is that the submissives choose to face this stress the very act of choosing to submit knowing the risks can transform cortisol from a signal of danger to a tool of growth in this way scenes become exposure therapy for fear intensity becomes a gateway to catharsis fear becomes erotic not paralyzing and this can like you don't have to like think oh why is my body doing this this is so wrong what why isn't it working the whole therapy and things like that like it's not guaranteed to like work you might actually just freeze up you might just cry you might just um it might ruin the scene for you and the dominant ruin sounds like such a harsh word but i think i should hope you understand what i mean like it's not your fault or anything like that but no not but oh that's gross yeah you get what i mean like the scene will not be the same there we go that works and yeah don't think that it's all horrible it's been ruined like shush get cuddles like you're fine you might freeze at the first time doing it but the more you gradually do it you might get better and better your body your brain might get better and better understanding that it's okay it's absolutely okay so yeah trying to explain that in such a nice way so cortisol drop and recovery after a scene if cortisol remains elevated the submissive may experience emotional crash hypervigilance or anxiety fatigue or crying temporary disorientation so again it is very very key to be in tune with oneself and have the dominant be in tune as well so this is sub drop and it is directly linked to cortisol depletion proper aftercare rich in oxytocin and serotonin brings the system back into balance so again the aftercare is very very important here so cortisol and the dominance role, emotional responsibility, and internal stress. So much stress. Dominance may also experience cortisol spikes due to performance pressure, emotional attunement to their partner's reactions, fear of causing real harm or missing cues, and managing complex scenes with high stakes. being a dominant is not easy it is not there is so much you have to think about and control and make sure you are trained to some capacity like even when you're caning somebody you might accidentally miss or mess up and that feels horrible I absolutely feel like I've ruined the whole scene when that happens but you have to try and not think like that yeah yeah if you have doubt in yourself that could lead to not so great effects in the scene you need to try and get your confidence up and you need to try and not be so self-conscious because then you that could be disastrous really these forms of physiological stress can subtly activate the HPA axis the dominant might not even realize they're stressed but cortisol may be running high in the background especially during edge play or fear-inducing scenes so managing stress while in control for dominance cortisol regulation can be improved through through rituals say like talking saying like three times like you're an amazing dom you can do this like all that stuff and grounding breath techniques before the scene i mean even if you want to do it in the scene i don't really see a problem with that because you are trying to ground yourself you're trying to like get yourself back together essentially and of course communication and pre-seen emotional calibration if possible so also focused attention on the submissive cues reduces uncertainty and gets yourself back into control and when you see whoever you're playing with in having a good time then that can help so much with the fear of am I actually doing this right and then you hear them moan and it's like yeah and yeah that is a major cortisol trigger dominance also benefit from aftercare as well we did hit on this in part one but it of course is always great to talk about it in part two as well not just to reinsure the submissive but to compress their own nervous systems as well like we do need to have that dom drop but slowly just as the submissives as well so navigating the edge when cortisol enhances play scenes that flirt with danger consensual non-consent knife play breath play fear play often create intentional cortisol spikes this can enhance focus and alerts the perception of time slowing down emotional catharsis afterwards and the intensity of trust bonds when the quote danger ends this kind of controlled stress exposure can be physiologically beneficial when it's clearly negotiated participants have the emotional tools to recover so again you need to be really in tuned with yourself and with your body and the dominant it helps if they are vigilant and skilled but do not just because you're not um you don't have the experience don't don't let that put you off like learn more and like it's like a job in a way where like you can do all the training for it but because you don't have any in-person experience you you most of the time get turned away and you just have to really really keep at it and it is a skill absolutely bdsm in general so cortisol plus endorphins plus catharsis cortisol and endorphins often operate in tandem the spike of stress followed by release creates emotional purging tears or laughter euphoric exhaustion and a sense of having survived something together basically it's not just about situation it's about transformation absolutely So, recovery and long-term regulation. How to help the body return to baseline. After a cortisol heavy scene, the nervous system needs time to rest. You can support this by providing emotional containment and space to feel, gentle touch, water, food or grounding sensitivity input, avoiding sudden transition transitions like um and also and also lights noises like sometimes you can keep them low and noises down quite a bit and of course affirming words to close the scene like you're safe now it's over i've got you all that cute shit so long-term resilience through bdsm Repeated consensual exposure to stress in BDSM may build psychological resilience. The submissive learns to endure, the dominant learns to regulate. The body learns the arc, stress, peak, recovery. When scenes are scaffolded with care, the BDSM becomes a form of nervous system training. cortisol is the fire we dance around in BDSM it is the edge, the gasp, the moment the mind races and the body asks am I safe? in BDSM we answer the question with presence, care and trust we take the body to its limits but then we bring it home and in doing so we don't just play with stress we learn to master it so the last thing we're going to talk about is we're going to bring it all together what does it mean to play with the entire chemistry of the brain how do you synthesize dopamine serotonin endorphins oxytocin and cortisol into scenes that are just scenes that are not just safe but transcendent so that's what we're going to talk about next I'm so excited and then we're going to wrap up because this is going to be like probably maybe just under an hour so you've made it to the last bit thank you so much for like listening to me for both of these episodes I know they have been long episodes and I really really appreciate it So BDSM as neurochemical orchestration. BDSM is not just play, it's neurological engineering. Every scene is structured. Every scene is a structured experience designed to shape a person's neurochemical state. A well-crafted scene often follows a neurochemical arc, anticipation, dopamine, the scene begins with suspense the submissive's body hums with potential the dominant plans prepares and teases desires grow intensity endorphins cortisol impact play impact power emotional edge pain becomes pleasure fear becomes erotic Stress activates and the body meets it with euphoria. Surrender and control. Serotonin, oxytocin. Emotions stabilize. The scene flows. Eye contact and ritual deepen connection. Both partners are inside the moment. Climax or catharsis. endorphins and dopamine the high hits a breakthrough an orgasm or emotional release erupts bodies tremble boundaries dissolve recovery oxytocin serotonin the touch softens words come gently blankets kisses breathe the world narrows to safety The nervous system rewires. This process mirrors others' peak experiences. Dance, performance, ritual, even psychedelic journeys. BDSM is intentional chemical transformation. And knowing that allows us to craft it with respect. The ethics of neurochemistry. Consent is not just verbal, it's neurological. understanding neurochemistry reveals that consent is not a one-time event it's a state that shifts with chemical tides a person may enter a scene feeling confident but under high endorphin or cortisol may lose their ability to articulate subspace alters perception domspace may narrow empathy That's why safe words must be respected and rehearsed. Non-verbal communication is essential. You need to figure that out. You need to be able to talk to each other, even when not using physical words. Negotiation should anticipate emotional shifts. Absolutely. Care is a chemical responsibility. When you introduce... when you induce stress you must offer grounding when you generate attachment you must nurture it BDSM ethics extend into the neurochemical aftermath so like did you provide a soft landing did you check in days later after dopamine dropped did you consider your partner's mental health context this is where kink becomes not just erotic but spiritually mature there is so much you need to do with checking up on the person making sure even like a week after time you could come back to them and be like are you good like is there anything we need to discuss just wanted to know if you're taking care of yourself all that stuff So the gift of neurochemical awareness, designing better scenes, knowing how these chemicals work, allows partners to build anticipation with purpose, dopamine, modulate intensity mindfully, endorphins and cortisol, prioritize emotional safety, serotonin, foster lasting bonds, oxytocin. It also helps when scenes don't go as planned. A drop, a misread clue, a moment of misalignment. Neurochemistry offers a language for understanding and repair. Sometimes a scene invokes deep tears, or a submissive falls into a three-day blissful fog, or a dominant feels raw and powerful in a way that changes them. This is not just a mood. These are neurochemical rites of passage. And they deserve reverence. They deserve acknowledgement. It's a must. It really is in the BDSM scene. BDSM is often called edge play. But the edge isn't just physical, it's emotional, chemical, spiritual. When you play with power, you play with brains, hearts, bodies, and blood. When you hold someone down, you hold their trust. When you whisper in their ear, you whisper to their neurochemistry. This episode wasn't just about neurotransmitters. It was about the sacred science of connection. And connection itself, where it's very, very important to have the talks and Be human, basically. If we understand what's happening inside us, we can love better, play deeper, and build safer, more transformative dynamics. Whether you're a seasoned dominant, a curious submissive, or a switch in the process of discovery, may this knowledge empower your kink. Strengthen your compassion and remind you BDSM is not play. It is alchemy. thank you so much for joining this episode i am paulson victoria and this has been behind the paddle podcast this episode is neurochemistry of bdsm dopamine serotonin and the brain on kink part two thank you so much for listening you can leave us a review on spotify apple everything it's great please do please do um if you want to hear any topics no matter what they are not it doesn't just have to be kink we talk about all sorts here and yeah thank you so so much for listening and You can listen to us on Spotify, Apple, YouTube. You can watch me on YouTube because I put my video on there as well so you can actually see what I look like. We have Instagram, Twitter. We use Instagram quite a lot. But yeah, thank you so much for listening. Bye.

People on this episode