Behind the Paddle
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Behind the Paddle
E74: Rope Bondage with Miss Fay Morgan Part 2
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Welcome to BehindthePaddle Podcast in today’s episode we will be speaking to the amazing Miss Fay Morgan.
Rope bondage transcends the physical act of tying knots, creating a profound psychological landscape where vulnerability, surrender, and healing intertwine. In this second installment of our rope series, guest expert Faye Morgan takes us deeper into the emotional terrain of shibari and rope bondage, exploring how these practices can foster deep connection and sometimes unexpected transformation.
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Welcome Back to Rope Discussions
Speaker 1Hello and welcome back to Behind the Banner Podcast with me Poulsen Victoria . So this is part two of I don't know what exactly I'm going to call it yet , but this is part two of talking about rigging and rope and all things wonderful , and I am here with Miss Faye Morgan and we're going to continue talking about rope . We've talked so much in part one and I very much encourage you to go back and give part one a listen , if you haven't already listened to it . If you have , then thank you for listening and go listen again . Why not ? Not ?
Emotional Terrain of Rope Bondage
Speaker 1And yeah , so now we're going to talk about the descent into the emotional terrain of rope bondage , because for so many people , the rope is not just physical , it's psychological , just like many , many more different aspects of BDSM . It inv vulnerability , catharsis and even transformation , and in the wrong hands it can replicate harm instead of healing . That sensation of dropping in , of something shifting emotionally , chemically , spiritually , while in bondageayne morgan . Can you speak to that ? What does emotional surrender look like in rope and what's your experience of witnessing or holding that as a top ?
Speaker 2very good question . Thank you for having me back on behind the paddle here as , um , not only a portable thesaurus but , uh , your friendly neighborhood rigger . Um , so emotional surrender can look so many ways in rope . I I often think of it as sort of someone melting , you know , you might notice just they're softer , there's less body tension . Perhaps they start to lean back into you . They react different to your touch , perhaps move gently away from it , perhaps lean into it , and in terms of witnessing and holding that , that is something that can depend on what you've negotiated .
Speaker 2You know , if you've negotiated for a scene of emotional cruelty or abandonment , perhaps you're witnessing it and intentionally not providing comfort . That would be more of an unusual and edge case . But just to make the point that it can vary . But , as I mentioned in part one , for me that emotional surrender being trusted with it being trusted with not only witnessing someone in their vulnerability but pushing them into greater vulnerability is , uh , really my true , truest motivator in kink so there's a term many of us use in the kink world , which is subspace , that altered state where time shifts and you float somewhere between pleasure , trust and dissociation .
Speaker 1we did talk about this in previous episodes of the neurochemistry of the lovely brain , so if you haven't listened to those episodes , go , go , go , go listen . It's very , very interesting . All the lovely chemicals so we've got like cortisol , serotonin , so many more , so many more . For some , rope is one of the fastest ways to get there . What
Navigating Subspace in Rope Scenes
Speaker 1are the signs that someone is entering subspace during a rope scene , and how do you , as the person tying , respond when you notice that happening ?
Speaker 2so again , I mentioned in part one that witnessing someone enter subspace through rope , and the first time I caused someone to enter subspace through rope were they're not submitting uh , or don't see it as a ds interaction , but again it is that altered state , um , and rope space is a term that can also be used as a top so that state of flow and extreme focus and nothing existing outside of a rope . And the signs that someone is entering subspace . They might be if they've had their eyes open , maybe their eyes drift closed , perhaps they're more relaxed , perhaps their breathing changes and also they might be slower to respond to you verbally , you know , if you ask a question , and so what I usually do when I'm negotiating is I ask someone if they have a tendency to struggle more with verbal communication in subspace , and even if they say they don't , I agree tactile symbols , so check in . So for me , I squeeze someone's hand and if they squeeze back , then that's , I'm still here , I'm still consenting . If they don't squeeze back , I will stop and more thoroughly , verbally check in until I get some words out of them and see if they're doing all right . The vast majority of time they've just forgotten the signal and why I'm squeezing their hand , but for me that's great reassurance and it means that if we're really enjoying that beyond verbal space , I don't necessarily need to break the moment , but I can check in sometimes when I'm doing something .
Speaker 2To intensify something , you know , give their hand a squeeze and squeeze back . Okay , right , you can take that and give a little bit more . How do I respond when I notice that happening ? Well , part of your awareness is , you know , subspace as an altered state can mean that you have less body awareness . So I that affects my risk profile a bit . You know I wouldn't try a more risky tie that I don't know someone has experience of , um , or that I know someone does not have experience of . If I can see that they're high off ahead in subspace , but generally I would , I'd feel good about it . I can see that they're high off the head in subspace , but generally I would , I'd feel good about it .
Speaker 1I get a vicarious high and I would , I'd be glad yeah , and I feel like something which I should just also note is that if you don't go into subspace with your top dom or tying being tied , don't worry . If you don't go into any spaces like so , for some people it can be really , really hard , I've found , to be in spaces , and especially if you're always thinking about it and you're putting pressure on yourself . Um , yeah , don't , don't think about it too much , I feel , when it comes to spaces , just enjoy the moment that you're in and , yeah , don't put too much pressure on yourself thinking , oh , I should be in this headspace or I really want to feel what other people feel in spaces .
Speaker 2There's no surer way to prevent yourself from enjoying the moment than stressing about not feeling something you should be feeling yeah , exactly so .
Speaker 1I feel like it's a delicate balance , because , on one hand , subspace can be a gift , but on the other , it creates real vulnerability , and with vulnerability comes responsibility a heck of a lot responsibility . So let's talk about that . In a world where anyone can post rope photos online , teach a beginner class or call themselves a rigger because I have found that in the kink community men where they've done one thing in
Red Flags and Ethical Practice
Speaker 1rope or seen something and they've went yes , I am now a rigger- this is a great way to acquire a steady stream of young women new to the scene .
Speaker 1Oh , yes , oh yes . I mean I feel like they're the red flags where play partners or tops pick young , I want to say vulnerable , especially new people in the kink community and when , when you are new in the community as well , you do sometimes want friends , you do want to meet people , but you can ignore the red flags of other people as well , and that can be really , really dangerous absolutely .
Speaker 2You haven't really calibrated your red flag detector . You know you're in this brave new world where people are doing all sorts of wild things that wouldn't be acceptable in normal society , and so you don't know which behaviors you wouldn't tolerate in vanilla interactions you should tolerate . Or perhaps you put pressure on yourself to accept things um out of an eagerness to feel accepted and to make friends absolutely , and I feel like once we've made mistakes or things have happened to us , then we build boundaries .
Speaker 2I've found that does happen with people who have had something traumatic happen and just to to step off of that and to the you know where anyone can call themselves a rigger and ethical practice . You know my first experience of bottoming in rope you know it wasn't any of the um , you know people I've mentioned learning from . It was someone I didn't really have further interactions with this , but I was at torture garden . I think it was the first or maybe the second torture garden I'd ever been to . I was very new to the kink scene and I saw someone doing suspensions and you know I didn't know him from Adam , he didn't know me and I sort of went up and was like oh , I saw you tying someone , like would you possibly tie me , would you suspend me ? And he said yeah , all right , and um , I'd .
Speaker 2You know I'd been drinking and you know I answered honestly when he asked me if I'd . You know I'd been drinking and you know I answered honestly when he asked me if I had . But you know it was a noisy environment , we couldn't have proper negotiation , he couldn't check in with me about injury and so on and he suspended me and I was fine and he didn't touch me in a way I was uncomfortable with and because I was both like lucky and sporty . You know I didn't't get any injuries . But I look back and I go I'm really . There was so much scope for that to go really wrong and as a rigger I would never tie . You know a young drunk woman who came up to me and went hey , you rake , will you put rope on me and suspend me ? I cringe at my past self but I really side-eye that rigger no , I certainly would too , to be fair .
Speaker 1Just , oh , there's so many people sadly out there who don't do rigging and rope justice and instead they can mislead people , especially when it comes to educating other people . And I've seen it before um , not just with um rope , but I went , I personally went to a mistress about medical play and this is a well-known mistress and I asked um I went for needle play , were you bottoming or were you seeking education ?
Speaker 2as a top .
Speaker 1So I was bottoming in the scene but I was learning as if I was the top , if that makes any sense .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah , like learning to take it with a view to dishing it out .
Speaker 1Yeah , I absolutely believe in what you inflict on the sub . You need to inflict on yourself to an extent to also see how it feels , and that obviously would help um with if you're going hard on a sub or if you're um going lightly on the sub , and I think is very , very useful and it puts more trust for me at least with the dominant , that they know more of what they're doing . Um , but yeah , I went to a mistress , very well-known mistress , here in Scotland , to learn more about needles . Um , we got talking about saline , saline injections , and I was like , yeah , you know what , sure like you do it on me . So I had saline injected into my hand , uh , well , into my arm , and then this mistress , who is very known on the scene and has been here for many years and is even in porn videos and such um , she then proceeds to tell me how saline is completely safe and it's fine if it goes into the bloodstream and stuff , and I was like what wait ? I don't really think it is that safe and so that kind of taught me .
Speaker 1No matter how educated somebody can also be , there can still be red flags in certain people and in certain ethics that people do speak upon and how they educate other people . So , yeah , always , always , look up . I would suggest , um , even after you've been taught by somebody as well um , especially if you are new to whether it's the industry or whether it's the lifestyle itself or whether you're just curious . Um , yeah , in a world where anybody can do anything and say they are anything , you really need to take a look and double check everything and put boundaries up as well . That is such a very important thing , which sometimes those boundaries don't come in until after things have happened .
Speaker 2But and I would also say you know , particularly when you're talking to a professional , their response to that will tell you volumes . You know , if you ask a you know a polite and relevant question , um , the answer you would hopefully get is , yep , fair enough . You know here , this is the experience I have with this . You know , um , and you know there's how many years I've been doing it . These are practices I do , these ones I don't . If someone , whether they are a professional or a lifestyler , reacts in a defensive
Responding to Trauma Responses
Speaker 2or an angry way , are you saying hi , I'm interested in this practice . I've heard it can be dangerous , you know . Could you just tell me a little bit about your experience ? If they react , hi , I'm interested in this practice . I've heard it can be dangerous , you know , could you just tell me a little bit about your experience ? If they react crossly to that , then that's not a not a great sign .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely so . What does consent look like in rope ? Not just the yes or no , but the nuance .
Speaker 2Yeah . So this is a very good question , not one with simple answer . Um , so I can say so I'll tell you about some things I do to try and kind of stay on the right side of that dance . So it starts with negotiation . You know I have a thorough negotiation before a scene , both talking about practical things . You know , what areas of your body can I tie ? What areas of your body do you not want rope on ? Are there any parts of your body that you do not want me to touch ? But I also talk about whether in-scene negotiation is allowed . So you know , if we're in the middle of a scene and I realize I really want to bite someone's toe , can I ask them can I bite your toe ? Um , just take a completely random example of something I definitely didn't do in a session earlier this week . Um , you know , so someone , as we spoke for it , interacts with subspace . You know , someone might say actually subspace me will say yes to anything , uh , you can't really trust .
Speaker 2You know that the consent I give in in that altered state is a representative of , like , my true desires , in which case I'll go okay , I know not to um push anything in scene or ask for anything new and seen that wasn't explicitly covered in negotiation . Uh , as I mentioned previous answer , I also check about whether someone tends to go non-verbal and I ask them for signs to look out for , uh , to tell them for when they're struggling . You know , some people might , um , crimp their toes or start to flex their fingers a lot when they're struggling , either emotionally or physically . Um , I . So I talk about that practical stuff , but I also talk about the energy and the vibe , you know . I talk about the level and the vibe . You know . I talk about the level of body contact from me that they're comfortable with . I , when I tie , I tend to be quite close in with someone . I will sometimes , you know , put a foot on them to hold a limb in place . I might sit on them , you know , put my weight on them . I might use impact more to shock and add contrast rather than to give pain , but I'll negotiate that beforehand , um , and then I also talk about whether there is a sadomasochistic element of this for them . So you know , am I , do I have their consent to intentionally cause them pain beyond the sort of base pain of the rope , to intentionally do things in a more painful way ? Uh , do I ? Is it a ds dynamic ? Uh , and then also , how sexual is it so , both in terms of sexual contact but also in terms of sexual energy ?
Speaker 2Um , I have a story here from my personal life , which is someone who was a friend with uh sexual and kink benefits of mine , who then , uh , got into a monogamous relationship but , with a consent of their partner , wanted to be tied by me , and I felt a little unsure about this because she told me that she was sexually monogamous and I said well , I can promise not to touch you in any overtly sexual ways , but I'm attracted to you . That has been our energy in the past . I cannot promise that I will not be bringing sexual energy to this or looking at you in a sexually hungry way . Um , and I articulated that and she said no , that is fine , like that is within what my partner and I have agreed . That is , within parameters , um , but that is something that's important to check and my general rule of thumb , or like guiding principle , is it's always better to do less and leave someone wanting more or feeling , oh , I could have gone a bit further , oh , I really wish she kissed me so much . Better to leave them wanting more than to risk traumatizing someone or to risk violating their consent .
Speaker 2I also find it's important to negotiate aftercare before the scene and also to be open to conversations afterwards . You know , someone might say , when you say , what aftercare do you need ? And they might say could you drop me a message tomorrow Just see if I'm doing all right , because it would be an intense scene and I might need a little bit of . You know , just check in touch base then . And then also to be open to feedback that people get .
Speaker 1You know if you have feedback from bottom whether it's about a technical aspect of the tie or whether it's about your communication during the scene um , then listen to what they say and take it into account and reevaluate your practice based on that so there's a term I've heard used by some rope practitioners and in previous episodes that will be released , um , I actually had the lovely pleasure of talking to , so I had um the pleasure of having channel four's virgin island , celeste Hirschman and Dr Daniel Harrell on recently talking about somatica and talking about the lovely world of somatica and how it does entwine with BDSM .
Speaker 1So please go listen to that episode . It is very , very interesting and it is such a lovely conversation that we all three of us have about how consent , whether that be touch , verbal , it all is entwined with BDSM and even vanilla , where you're looking to see if somebody's breathing correctly , if there's a change in pace , if there's just a difference . It very much is being connected to one another Enthusiastic somatic consent , meaning not just verbal consent but a body-based consent that shows up in muscle tension , breathing , micro movements , everything . It's about attunement and about checking in without words . So how do you stay attuned to somebody's body when they're , when you're tying them ? What does that entail ?
Speaker 2listening look like for you it's very I love those moments where you learn a new phrase that describes a phenomenon that you're very familiar with and it's not a phrase I come across before . I very much look forward to listening to that episode . But yeah , that is a very a core part not just of my tying but of my doming overall is know , reading person , reacting to the person . So how do I stay attuned to someone's body ? So for me a lot of it is instinctive . You know I'm keenly observing and you know , if someone were to say how did you know that doing x was something they liked and so you're going to do some more , I could kind kind of think back and go , ok , yeah , no , the toe , sort of foot , was doing a happy wiggle and then the breathing was really relaxed . But in the moment it's just a knowing . But the caveat to that is sometimes our instincts can take us astray . So you can refine your instincts more by knowing the person , but you can't make assumptions , especially if it's your first time playing with someone . So I feel more safe relying on enthusiastic , somatic consent with people who are people I have played with before , that I have an established dynamic with , that I have an established dynamic with and that I feel we have a good line of communication both in and outside kink scenes , where I feel that
The Healing Power of Rope
Speaker 2hopefully I will read them right . If I read them wrong , they will tell me in the moment and if not and I do inadvertently cross a boundary that is something that we can communicate and work through together . So , that said , you know , if I see a reaction , I think it might mean something that they like that thing , but it also might mean that they're feeling a bit tense or they're uncomfortable with that . I will ask you know I'll often go is that a good noise or a bad noise ? Because you don't know , when you don't know someone , and someone's noise of happy pain or arisal might sound like an unhappy noise if you don't know them yet . And so I'll ask and I'll sort of calibrate my awareness , like learn their particular language and check if my instinct is correct , which makes it more accurate in future .
Speaker 2And I sort of think of it as having a menu of different things to try , because different people will relax into a scene and , you know , potentially reach subspace through different treatments . Different treatments , um , you know , with some people being quite aggressive in my tying and you know , quite quick , quite rough , uh , will have them swooning and with some people they're fairly resistant to that . But actually going slow , being very intent and almost tender , what you know , being tender and very attentive will actually leave them feeling a lot more emotionally vulnerable and sort of melty in the scene . So I have a sort of a mental smorgasbord of different things to try . You know , and I'll try something and I'll go okay , they're not really reacting very much to that , I'll try something else . What about ? Oh , that got a reaction . Oh well , sometimes , um , you know , a sprinkle of cayenne pepper goes really well with this dish . I'll add that .
Speaker 1I mean cayenne pepper in general in a scene is uh no , I was .
Speaker 2I don't know , you wouldn't really have cayenne pepper in a smorgasbord , but you know what I mean . You're like this is a great wine cheese pairing and , uh , I , I see you like the brie , because I don't know anything about wine .
Speaker 1I don't know why I picked this metaphor .
Speaker 2I do not know anything about wine but I mean , if I can see that someone is , but when I'm bringing aggressive energy they're becoming a bit more tense and locked off to me , but when I bring tender energy they are becoming a little more emotionally vulnerable , then I might go okay , well , I think this might work well with that , you know , um , and proceed in the scene based on the reactions I'm getting from them .
Speaker 1So let's now talk about trauma , because anything in BDSM um , whether it be something , as you think it might be small , where somebody has got you blindfolded and they trace their fingers up your arm , that could absolutely trigger you , or something as potentially big as being suspended , that could trigger you as well . Absolutely so . Rope can stir up trauma even when you least expect it , and that's not always a failure of consent . It's just a part of how the memory lives in the body . It happens , it does , and now you've got to help repair that in a way . And my question to you is how do you hold space when someone has a trauma response mid-scene or when something goes wrong in a scene for any reason , and what would you say to newer tops who might panic or freeze when that happens ?
Speaker 2that's a very good question and I appreciated the nuance there of you saying that it's not necessarily a failure of consent or a failure of the bottom to thoroughly negotiate . You know , sometimes we can have triggers that we're not aware of and it can be very difficult to experience this as a top . This is something I have experienced and it feels very intense and emotionally distressing to you in that moment . But what you need to do is center the needs of the person who is having that response . So don't make it about you , don't go into big . Oh , I thought we were okay , you're okay with me . Do you think I'm a bad person ? Like ? That can come later .
Speaker 2For now , it is about helping to that person to safely navigate through . You can have your own reaction later with your own support system . So center them for now . If they can , if they can still verbally communicate uh , work out if they want to stop the scene or if they'd like to continue with something different direction . If you're doing a rougher scene and they were like actually would feel really jarring , and if we completely stopped but we do a really sort of tender scene where you're just wrapping me in rope , that might feel comforting .
Speaker 2We're getting the mushy ones . Um , so work out if they want to stop scene or change direction . If they can't communicate that well to you , you know are on the side of stopping things and thank them for communicating with you . I always say that when someone communicates something whether it's that wrap is a bit high
Body Image and Appearance in Rope
Speaker 2or a bit tight , or whether or I'm uncomfortable or you know something , I'm having a trauma response , I say thank you , thank you for communicating that with me . And you know , once the rope is off , establish what they need to regulate themselves If they want you around or don't want you around . Try not to take it personally . You know it could be that they're having a post-traumatic response and their logical brain knows that you're not the person who has caused them that trauma , but emotionally they just can't look at you or have you touch them right now .
Speaker 2So you know , work out and again it's about what they need , not about what you need at that moment and make it clear to them that you're not disappointed . It's not a failure . You are grateful to them for communicating that for you . We're complex , messy , nerve spaghetti , doing strange things and unexpected stuff happens sometimes , and that's just being a human who is tying humans and not robots . And then afterwards you can well seek your own support , ideally with people besides them , because if they're processing a trauma response , you then dumping your peripheral trauma to having them . Your trauma from having seen them have a trauma response is not . They're not the appropriate person to put that work on .
Speaker 2So seek support from your support system , particularly experienced tops who've navigated that before , and you , if a person is ready and willing to have conversation with them about you know what happened . You know what was it you did . Was there a failure of you know ? Was a misreading or a communication or consent failure on your part , or was it something unexpected ? If you two have plans to play again in future , what are things you could do to avoid triggering that and ways that you could more skillfully navigate traumas arising together as a team ?
Speaker 1So you hear that Communication that's what all that is , and the idea that rupture can still be repairable is so critical . Too often people think a bad scene quote marks bad scene means someone failed and , like I , I understand why some people may feel like a lot of guilt and feel really shitty afterwards and it's sad for and it's a shame , because stuff happens , it really does , and we can't help it . We things happen , but the healing part of it it can take a while , it can take a good while , but as long as you attempt to heal and learn from it and not you don't , there is no like moving on . It happened and you just have to . Yeah , you just have to learn from that experience and then mold the next experiences into something that can heal , help heal that part of you , and it can be a very slow process , so do not also feel impatient that you're not healing fast enough .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I agree with you that you know , know that healing is that it's not a failure . And yeah , you know I I also think that sometimes we reach those deeper levels of trust by navigating difficult situations , you know , with our bdsm partners . Uh , you know , and it can be a very healing experience in itself to have someone react calmly , kindly and constructively to you , having a response based on previous trauma , and that can build trust in the relationship and also help you rebuild your trust in yourself yeah , I've had sessions with um bottoms where and and subs where we've done something and they've cried because in other periods of their life they've been frowned upon for doing certain things in scenes or getting triggered .
Speaker 1And there was a wonderful blissful moment where I was doing a certain thing on a sub and they just burst out crying because they just have never had it in that way where it's been so peaceful and loving in a way , and tender and caring , and afterwards there wasn't like any yelling or any guilt thrown onto them because they didn't feel comfortable in a certain scene . And I have seen that before where the submissives of the dominant have been held down to actually complete the scene , even though they're uncomfortable . And I actually saw it at an event recently and I do not go to that event anymore and it was the host who was actually doing it and the host was actually intoxicated as well . Yeah , it was not great and for me that was just a massive red flag in general . And , yeah , healing and trauma it's not something that should be frowned upon , it's not something that should be um yelled on . You shouldn't have the whole guilt of memories flowing back and now you're having to deal with your top or your dom making you feel bad .
Speaker 2Yeah , and that's what I , you know . It was why I made a point of saying , as a top , you're going to feel distressed , you're going to feel like maybe you messed up . It sucks to feel someone , to have someone you care about suffering , but if you rely on them to help you integrate , that you're making them feel like a burden . You're making them feel , oh , I upset her so much and she's having to deal with this because of me . And then you end up prioritizing the other person's response to your emotions over your right to feel your emotions , which has , like the ultimate long-term effect of you suppressing and bottling your emotions . That's the opposite of what we're going for in BDSM absolutely .
Speaker 1I feel like , especially if you know the , if you have a good connection with the bottom , or even the top , to be fair . Whoever's got the trauma all of us , baby , whoever has it then you can maybe have a little discussion on like what can help heal it ? So like something as like , if the
Gender Dynamics in Rope Communities
Speaker 1person with the trauma , um , they want to be left alone , then you they can be left alone . If you want to be a little bit cute about it , potentially , and be like do you want like a hot chocolate or like , um , a blanket yeah , yeah , exactly something .
Speaker 1Just like they might not want you , they might want something else which like doesn't talk or isn't potentially like overbearing to them or isn't too much , and what I would say to that is don't take it personally , do not . This is just one of the many coping methods which can come about when trauma comes and sadly , we , we just can't really control that . And yeah , so we're gonna now explain um into the ways rope can be intentionally used for healing . So you've worked with people who came to rope not just for erotic play , but for emotional grounding , somatic exploration , even grief processing . Can you talk more about some of the ways rope has been healing for others or for you ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely has been healing for others or for you ? Yeah , absolutely so it can be . I think most people , even if they've never done rope , can relate to that feeling where you've you've been having a really hard time but you're keeping going , you're managing , and then someone just gives you a really kind word or a hug and you just start to cry and it's not that they've upset you , it's that they've given you the kindness and the space to sort of express what you're feeling . And rope can be a really powerful way of intentionally creating that space and consenting to be the safe vessel for someone's wild emotions that they feel like they're not allowed to express but have to get out . This is something that I've experienced on on both sides of rope .
Speaker 2Um , I had a very difficult week before and a friend tied me . We weren't doing anything super wild , she was just tying me with care , intention and such focus and tenderness and I just began to sob and you know she knew that that was what I needed . She knew that it was a release and not distressed anything she was doing , and she was so warm and accepting of my big emotional response and I felt washed clean afterwards . It was wonderful and I have had a friend come to me after experiencing a loss and who was starting to wanted to kind of start to reconnect to their sexual self with a view to sort of stepping back into kink again and , you know , wanted to have a tie with me where I would really hold the space for them emotionally . And we did that . And you know there was that moment , that sort of somatica moment , where you know the emotions were released and you know she began to cry and I , as the top and not the person who'd experienced the loss , you know to cry too because I was so moved by the trust and you know how , both like the empathic response and also like how honored I felt to be holding that space for her um , and I think that rope can also be very healing for people in terms of body acceptance .
Speaker 2You know whether that is um disability related , particularly in the case of progressive conditions , or um adapting to chronic illness , or um changing uh .
Speaker 2You know kind of what your body changes and what your body can do um and also in terms of uh gender . So you know I've had experience , um with tying trans women who've sort of always wanted to be tied but worried that they'd feel self-conscious about how Baroque looked on them or not , that it would make them feel dysphoric , and then had the experience of just feeling like beautiful and feminine and feeling this congruence between how I'm treating them , have a look and have a feel inside , and I found that really affirming experience and I've been so buzzing to be able to give that to them it is really lovely , especially if somebody is looking in from like the vanilla side , so somebody who isn't into BDSM or somebody who hasn't looked into BDSM or is educated into BDSM and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast is because BDSM is very , very beautiful in so ways and it's connected to our emotions and it's connected to our brains and there is a massive community as well and it is really beautiful .
Speaker 1It lets us express so much about each other and , yeah , I think I will me personally . I will be forever grateful just for BDSM in general , because it's led me on some amazing journeys and it's taught me so much about people in general , especially how their brains work , and I've met wonderful people doing this as well .
Speaker 1So we're going to shift into something we talked about in part one , which was body image , because , let's be honest , rope doesn't exist in a back , in a vacuum . It exists in a world where , sadly , there is still very much um . It's shaped by fat phobia , ableism and narrow beauty standards . For many people , being tied or even seen in rope means confronting body shame , and I know we just touched on it a little , but I'd like to go more in depth a little to talk about how do you work with people who are nervous about how their body will look , feel or be judged in rope .
Speaker 2So negotiation is a part here . So you know , as I said , I tend to ask if anyone has , you know , part of the body they'd rather not have touched or have tied . You know , for example , if someone were transmasculine and had dysphoria about their chest , they might not want any rope there , or they might want rope , but only rope , but was flattening and compressing rather than anything that was emphasizing contours . So partly negotiation , that's more in terms of the feel , one In terms of the sort of look and the judged one , I think as a rigger , just being appreciative and admiring . You know like and often when people have a lot of shame , they can find it really hard to accept compliments . You know , if someone feels self-conscious about their weight and someone said you know your , your thighs look so beautiful in that tie , they might flinch or find that hard . But you know , if you look and just let your gaze linger and , you know , trace your fingers along and you're not , you're not even saying it , but like , you're watching and you're appreciating and they're seeing you watch and appreciate , I think that something else that is important to do is make it really clear to someone that if something doesn't work whether that's a particular tie , suspending someone in a particular position , trying to move their body in a certain way . If it doesn't work , that's your problem as a rigger , that's not their problem as a bottom .
Speaker 2I always say to people you know , I like to move people around in rope and I have a fair bit of experience moving around people who are bigger than me , but everyone has different balance points , you know , and you know it's like different techniques to kind of move people of different sizes and body compositions . And I want the bottom to be able to relax and experience , not to be stressing and second guessing being , oh gosh , you should try to move me this way . Should I do that ? Do be able to relax and experience , not to be stressing and second guessing being oh gosh , you should try to move me this way . Should I do that ? Do I need to move that ?
Speaker 2So I say to people you know , if I'm trying to move you and it doesn't work , that's my problem . I'll figure out , you know , better leverage or better angle . And if I can't figure it out , and then I will ask you I'll say you know , could you , could you kneel ? You know , would you shift forward ? But yeah , so that they're not needing to feel self-conscious and apologetic about existing in their body and they can feel confident that , yeah , my , my problem is to you know , figure the stuff out , and theirs is to relax , to enjoy and to communicate yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 1Communication , lots and lots of communication , absolutely so I think there's something incredibly beautiful and radical about putting somebody who is bigger or trans or disabled body in rope and saying this body is worthy of adornment and attention because everybody is beautiful in so many different ways . It's a shame that I feel a lot of people don't feel that about themselves , and I understand it can be for some people a very hard hurdle to get over , but it's the same with trauma healing the more you look , the more you do , hopefully , potentially the more confident you get with how you see yourself and that you are beautiful and you definitely are worthy of tying or being tied with rope . And rope doesn't erase the body , it highlights it . It draws attention to shape , posture , breath and the silhouette . That thought will stay with me and I'm sure , with our listeners as well , that everybody is beautiful , absolutely .
Speaker 1I want to offer a question for everyone listening , whether they're rope , curious , deeply experienced or have never touched a coil of jute in their life . When someone gives you their body in rope , they're giving you access to something incredibly tender . It's a gift , not a guarantee . So , miss Faye Morgan , what would you say to someone who wants to start tying but is afraid they're going to mess up .
Speaker 2A bottom or a rigger ? Both Okay , both yeah , both Okay , both yeah . So I experienced , I think , probably more anxiety about messing up as a new rope bottom than as a new rigger . Of course , as a rigger I had safety concerns and so on , but I was doing floor ties and staying away from risky things . But I remember having a conversation where I said how can I be a good rope bottom ? You know , I want to be good at this . I want to feel , want to be a grade A student , want to feel like I'm doing well . And the answer I got was enjoy yourself . And I kind of snorted and went that's not an answer , you know , tell me , tell me what it actually is . And basically the answer is just to show up authentically . You know to try and not second guess , to be open to the person who is trying you , transporting you and taking you into that alternate world .
Speaker 2As a rigger ,
Social Media's Impact on Rope
Speaker 2you know I would say technical skill , you know be safe . But technical skill ain't all that . You know you can just wrap a single rope around someone and just do it with like intent and presence and it can be hot and it can be powerful . So I spoke in the last episode about learning to bring my energy and my personality into my rope , and part of that came with confidence in technical ability , but a lot of it was just self-confidence and me saying well , you know , it might not be the most technically neat tie ever seen , ever , you know . But you know I'm not taking pictures for the Internet , or even if I am , you know I am taking a picture to remember that moment . I'm not taking picture at all . We'll talk about that later , um , but yeah , like the only thing that matters right now is me and this person and this space so we've covered the emotional core , the technical muscle and the physiological terrain of shibari and rope play .
Speaker 1We're going to talk more about what it means to keep rope in your life over years , not as a novelty or a trend , but as a practice , a part of who you are . And I feel like Miss Faye , you've seen rope from many angles . You've been a part of quiet local jams and major rope festivals . You've taught , tied , learned and held space . As in any other sphere , in Shibari the voices and dynamics that are amplified are often those which already hold more power in our society . In our society , often the image is of a male rigger tying a petite and serenely suffering feminine woman . So let's talk about gender in rope next . There's still so much bias in the kink world , conscious and unconsciousness consciousness , conscious and unconscious especially around who gets tied , who ties , who teaches and who is taken seriously . So have you noticed any patterns in how gender shows up in rope spaces and how do you push back against those patterns in your own practice ?
Speaker 2Have I noticed patterns ? Yes , absolutely , as you said , um , there is an image . It is very prevalent , um , and it is one that is seen , you know , in online space and in in-person ones . A frustrating thing I've seen is in-person ones , even . You know , at events or local scenes where there are many skilled female riggers , especially general kink events , there's sometimes a ? Um a limited amount of play space , either where rope is permitted or that is suitable for rope . Um , you know that there's enough space without you accidentally flicking someone on a spanking bench in the face with the end of your jute . Uh , do not do that , um . Or if you're wishing to suspend , there's a suspension ring and it can be really informative if you're at a party or event and you know that there are skilled female riggers there and yet there's a you know whether they be skilled or unskilled a male rigger who sort of camps out and hogs the suspension point all night , or it's just a procession of men and none of the women sort of feel empowered and enabled to take up that space and to go . Hey , actually I would like to use the hard point now . So I think that's interesting . Even it's not just about ensuring that women and for people who aren't so straight men , have the opportunities to learn these skills is also about helping them to , you know , be able to take that space unapologetically . Um , and how do I push back against those patterns ?
Speaker 2In my own practice , I'm a lot better at getting righteously angry on behalf of other people than on my own behalf . I am pretty good at , you know , sticking up for my friends and you know I can be the person to say hey , you know , like I could , I could have a word or I could say , hey , you know , that wasn't all right , I , yeah . Something else I've noticed in gender is I , you know , I mentioned I self-suspend and you know , as a , you know , petite , conventionally attractive woman , self-suspending , I've had men come up and try and chat to me or offer me advice mid-scene , or even go , or can I join in or touch my rope , and I am just like , if a dude was tying me , you would not do this . I think if the dude were tying , you would not do this . I think if the dude were tying himself , you would not do that . It's just this assumption that , like , a female body is up for grabs and if a woman is tying rope on herself , it's because she's advertising what a sexy bottom she is , not because she's having this kinky experience with herself . So I've got quite snippy .
Speaker 2There was one indirect experience of that kind with someone who later went on to be a friend , in part because they responded well to this where someone was having a rope scene near to where I was self-suspending and just becoming increasingly unaware of my space , coming into my space , risking hitting me with their rope because of their unconscious entitlement of taking up a lot of space as a male rigger , because of their unconscious , you know , entitlement of taking off a lot of space as a male rigger . I sort of managed to , while dangling , catch him and be like , hey , careful , you know you're my space a bit , you can just watch it . And he responded well to that , came up to me afterwards , apologised and we became friends . So I suppose I push back on my own behalf when I feel able .
Speaker 1I push back on my friend's behalf all the time , um , and when I teach and when I uh , help with hosting events , I try to have some sort of system for the use of spaces isn't just based on the loudest voices or those who feel most entitled to take up space I know I when you started talking about males and how it feels like , even when I do scenes um , not out in public , but in the community , I feel like when it comes to cis women , it feels like for men we have a fucking welcome sign on our heads where it's like you can come up to us absolutely , why not ? And it's like .
Speaker 2no , the depressing thing is I experienced that as a female rigger as well . You know , while this is slightly different for me in that now , you know , I do do pro sessions , which means I am open to people I don't know approaching me with a specific request for a rope scene , but you know that is something I a communication and inquiry I'm consenting to receive . But it's been my experience at the past where I've been having , you know , a really intense , lovely scene with a friend , an established play partner , and I've had some man . I've been having , you know , a really intense , lovely scene with a friend , an established play partner , and I've had some man , I do not know , come up and say will you do me next , Will you tie me like that ? And I'm going .
Speaker 2No , I'm often in the middle of aftercare or rounding up a scene and tend to be quite snappy because you know I'm in protect the bottom mode , um , but yeah , yeah , I'm out of words because it makes me cross no , I can agree with you as well , where I , I stick up for my friends more yeah , and I get into very fierce mama bear mode when I am in that I will always take on a position of you know , responsibility like that with my friends and look out for them .
Speaker 2But especially when someone is bottoming to me , you know I am fierce and I will fiercely defend their space , you know , in the scene during aftercare etc .
Speaker 1Yeah . So one thing I want to touch on , which ties into what we've just discussed about stereotypes and mainstream perceptions of this niche practice , is the pressure of visibility . In the age of instagram and tiktok , rope has became incredibly visual . People post photos of their ties , their suspensions , their aesthetics , and that's beautiful , but it also changes how people relate to the practice . So how do you feel that the social media ecosystem influences the relationship to rope , both for those within and those out with this community ?
Speaker 2So it's a blessing and a curse . You know , like I'm someone who's normally quite grumpy about social media , you know , if I have a sort of if it takes me sometimes several days to get back to the friends I want to talk to , I don't necessarily want to spend time posting into the void , but on the other hand , I do recognize the power it has in marginalized communities . So for me , I'm a member of the LGBT community and you know the online spaces are really important to be able to connect with others . Others and you know , in kink and then a niche sub practice within kink . You know I , when I started out , when I really got the shibari bug , I , you know , made an instagram for my rope work and I connected with um in the majority of cases . You know friends of friends , because it's a small world across the uk , uh , and it was lovely having sort of being mutuals already , because then it meant when I went to events I could say , oh , hi , yeah , no , we've messaged a bit . You know we've liked some of each other's pictures and there was a bit of connection already . Or even if it was someone I'd had a more extended conversation with , if I knew I was going to be in their city . I could say , hey , do you want to get a coffee ? Or even even , would you like to tie together ? So it was really nice for me in terms of feeling part of a community .
Speaker 2But then the double-edged sword was . I felt that there was this pressure to , you know , keep , keep putting things on the grid , keep putting up nice photos , and often the the photos that give me the big warm fuzzies when I look back at them aren't the most aesthetically pleasing ones because , um , fun fact , a hobby of mine is analog photography . So I am actually really interested in photography as a visual medium . But when I am in top space in a scene , I'm not in photography brain , my focus is on the bottom and I want to stay attuned to them , attuned to their body and their enthusiastic somatic consent , and not be focusing on image composition . So the pictures I take are out of focus , um , not great . But I look back and I remember the scene like god , that was incredible .
Speaker 2But if you know , that's the sort of thing that would get less engagement than a beautifully posed , beautifully lit picture um , that of a suspension which could potentially be unsustainable . It could be that the model was , uh , you know , on a winch or a hoist , you know , sort of hoisted into that suspension for two minutes while photos were taken and then put down . And this can tie in with unrealistic expectations that people can have of their own bodies in rope or their own tying skills of thinking . Oh well , they do it . They make it look so beautiful .
Speaker 2If someone's a professional shibari model , it is their job to make things look serene and beautiful . You know , if you're not a ballet dancer , you can't I'm returning to ballet again . You know you can't do incredible jumps and land on your toes and not get really hurt . So I have some resentment about it making , about the photo not seen . But then , on the other hand , I've made those connections and also so many people have got into shibari through being drawn to the beautiful aesthetics and then potentially have discovered they're more kinky than they knew . So yeah , mixed emotions , mixed emotions . I'd say use social media as a tool , but don't don't let it use you as a tool yeah .
Speaker 1I think definitely don't let social media go to your head as well , when it comes to seeing something that looks really perfect and I know when photos are taken it can look really perfect , but you don't know what is happening with the bottom and you don't know what's happening with the top . I mean , there can be a really nice picture from the front , but from the back their hands could be blue or something like .
Speaker 2Yeah , or even a less sinister level . You know , like how they use pegs and clips on mannequins , clothing mannequins and clothing stores to make the clothes look super fitted and tailored . You know , if I do a tie , perhaps I'm developing a new harness of someone and it looks absolutely gorgeous from the front and the side . But I've not quite figured out a neat way to do the frictions at the back . I'll be like , hey , can you just twist your shoulders a bit so you can get a nice picture up front of it ? I'll fix , you know , I'll figure out a better way to do that . But you know you're showing the good side of it and someone wouldn't know .
Speaker 2But actually no , the rest of it's a bit a bit messy yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 1And when you are seeing like perfect ties and aesthetically , make sure that , like you , don't hold yourself up very , very high to the point where you really want to get to be able to make this aesthetic look really nice , because then you might get depressed if you can't achieve what you're seeing online . It can be quite detrimental for the sake of whichever role you're in . So definitely , take social media with a pinch of salt . I would say it is beautiful , but it can be good , it can be bad . So now we're going to move on to some questions from our listeners . So the first question is for someone listening who wants to learn rope but doesn't have a partner
Listener Questions: Learning and Anxiety
Speaker 1where should they start ? How do you recommend solo learners approach the practice ?
Speaker 2I would say , you know , I have a slightly different answer , based on if the person is interested in cultivating self-tying as a practice or if they're willing to type himself as a means to an end , you know , but ultimately they want to be tying another person . Early days learning , where perhaps I knew some rote people but they were experienced bottoms and I felt that I wanted to respect their time and their expertise by learning what I could by myself . I tied furniture . I tied furniture a lot . I would practice , do half hitch drills on the legs of my kitchen table .
Speaker 2I would get a chair and try and approximately tie a box tie on it .
Speaker 2I even got an old wetsuit of mine and I stuffed it with clothing so that then I could practice tying a strapado , which is the arms behind the back , elbows , touching tie , so that that way I could get the basic pattern down in my head and then get the most out of my time with the bottom who was gifting me their time and their expertise as an experienced bottom and I could use that time to really kind of nail down the finer details .
Speaker 2So yeah , tie furniture honestly . The second part of that would be go and find a partner , so you know , if that's , you know , more of a long-term process , if it's the context of someone who wants to have a romantic monogamous relationship and practice rope without partner , in that case , you know , have fun , tie your chairs . Uh , if you're more looking to tie people within the kink community , then I'd say , you know , get out there , start to make some connections , you know , be that online , be that going to munches or local rope events , and , just , you know , leave your ego at the door and be friendly , admit that you're a beginner . Um , and check out shibari study as well .
Speaker 1It's really good yeah , I would definitely say , when you are going into the community and exploring , don't be like I don't know . I would say , don't be like too eager to find um a bunny or a model yeah , I'd say also be very open to tying people for practice .
Speaker 2You know so . You know , even if you are a straight man and you run into another straight man who's also wanting to learn to tie , you know you guys aren't attracted to each other , you're not going to form a bdsm relationship , but perhaps you could like hang out and just like take turns tying each other and you know then , like you have a friend who'll nerd out with you and you can both get something out of it yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 2Um another point coming off of that it's not gay I'm informed it's not gay if you keep your socks on . It's not gay as long as there's no toe rope and listeners . I always put toe rope in , so it's always gay with me but that is a narrative maybe .
Speaker 1Yeah , that I hear quite a bit with um cis men , especially where it's like oh , I like this , but I'm not gay , and it's like chill , don't worry about , it's like you play rugby and you're like , happily , like have like sweaty tackles with your friends and you know you don't see that as being threatening to your masculinity or sexuality .
Speaker 2So I would skill development in this thing and you know , if I were , you know , looking to , if I was seeking a rigor and I saw someone you know practicing with his pal like that would , I would have a lot of respect and I would like , yeah , I would be like , okay , so he's not just using rope as a tool to try and get women into bed . He wants to learn about this and he wants to develop skills and he's also making friendships and connections and not just thinking about getting laid yeah , absolutely yeah .
Speaker 1So the second question is what if someone is terrified they'll do it wrong , that they'll hurt someone or tie the wrong knot or just look awkward ? What do you say to people struggling with performance anxiety around rope ?
Speaker 2I would say the only way I is through , you know , the only way you can get rid of your fear is by doing the thing , and it can feel really hard to like consistently , like start with no , start from zero and like make yourself do the thing . So committing to regular practice . You know , I said that I started seriously learning rope in 2018 . I was going to events , I was going to classes and I didn't have an established partner with whom I tied , but I had a pool of friends with varying levels of interest in you know , letting me practice tying them and I sort of had them on a sort of rotating basis and I would make sure that at least once a week I was doing rope .
Speaker 2I would say , in terms of worrying about hurting someone , you know , yeah , that's a valid thing to be worried about , but if you are sensible and you are staying clear of a higher risk danger zones and you're listening to bottom , you're not playing while you're intoxicated or impaired or bottomers , then you know that is manageable . If you're worried about tying the wrong knot , like if you're not dangling someone off it , it doesn't and it's not like jabbing into a very sensitive part of their body in a non-consensual way I mean in a consensual way that's fine . But yeah , don't worry about tying the wrong knot . It doesn't matter .
Speaker 2If you're worried about looking awkward and the bottom consents to it , blindfold them . That was a big help for me , you know , when I was learning and I knew I'd pull my silly concentrating face . But if I blindfolded them , you know , I could just be doing a sexy smirk . I'll let them think I'm doing a sexy smirk . I'll let them think I'm pausing to just increase tension , rather than the anticipation , rather than because I can't remember the next bit , um yep , so just do the thing and it will probably be all right . Just like , be calm , it will get easier with time and don't let fear hold you back from doing something you could really love absolutely .
Speaker 1I mean . Going back to the blindfolding , it's good for sensory deprivation as well , absolutely , and I do use it as well . If I'm not sure on like what to do next as well , and there's a few pauses , I'm like you're getting blindfolded you don't deserve to look at me right now .
Speaker 2You haven't earned that right yeah .
Speaker 1And then you can learn how to do it sexually or without the pause , and it can all just be a learning curve . So I want to finish on a more personal note . Yes , we are near the end of part two At last . Yeah , no right , we've been going for so long . We've been doing rope . You've been doing rope not me for nearly a decade . How do you keep it alive for yourself ? What keeps you curious , connected and growing ?
Speaker 2brain . I , to an extent , I accept that my hobbies , my passions , come in cycles , you know . I know that rope is here to stay in my life and there might be time periods where I'm more actively pursuing my learning and time periods where I'm just tying for fun , occasionally or in combination with other kinks . I accept that . I don't stress out , you know I'm not on a race or a trajectory to acquire X level of skills by X date . So I don't , I try not to pressure myself in that way , but in . On the other hand , sometimes I forget how much I love it until they do it . You know it can feel like a lot of mental and physical energy , um , to arrange , to commit to a time to do the thing and two minutes in I'm going oh god , I love this , I should do this more , I should do this more . Um , you feel a little bit like exercise in that way sometimes . You know it makes you feel so good afterwards , but that activation energy can sometimes be hard . So for me and this is a habit that I am , I've made a commitment to get back into uh is having um weekly practice and what we call lab sessions , what you're trying out new ties or variations of ties with my regular rope partner as a weekly commitment and how I keep it alive for myself .
Speaker 2I think , like kink in general , there's just so much else you can explore , and if you're feeling burnt out or jaded on a particular side of it , you can go a different direction in terms of how I keep it alive for myself . There's a combination here of remembering that , as in the rest of bdsm , there are so many different practices and so many different ways you can explore those practices . If you're feeling burnt or burnt out or jaded , the way you're doing something , uh , you don't need to force yourself . You can . You can stop , you can take fresh , uh approach it from a different direction and in terms of what keeps me connected and growing , I think community is a really important answer here .
Speaker 2Um , before the pandemic , I loved going to rope events and making connections and I missed it so much when I couldn't , and that has been an utter delight to be able to do that . And now , with my regular rope partner , who I can travel to events with and take workshops with and just expose myself to different things and watch people tie and go . I never thought of doing that in that way and just feel that passion reignited over and over again .
Speaker 1So , miss Faye , you've given us so much today , and in part one , two as well . We've talked about technique , vulnerability , philosophy , care . If listeners would like to see more of you , where can they follow ?
Speaker 2so listeners can see more of me . Um , on x slash twitter it's uh , miss underscore fay f-a-y . Underscore morgan M-O-R-G-A-N , and on FetLife it is Miss Faye Morgan . No spaces . And , as I've mentioned , I do offer pro sessions and I'm open to respectful inquiries on either of those platforms or via my email address , which can be found on those platforms .
Speaker 1Yeah , keyword respectful , yes , yes , so you've helped us um understand that rope is never just rope , it's communication , it's calibration , it's curiosity and it's commitment to yourself , to your partner and to the practice . So , thank you , we will link all your links in the show notes and also link to the resources that you've recommended throughout the episode as well . Um , thank you very , very much for coming on . I have very much enjoyed your presence and all the education you have brought is great thank you for um getting getting tangled up in it all with me .
Speaker 2I very much appreciated it and I've appreciated your curiosity and enthusiasm to learn more about practice um , yeah , so remember , intimacy is not a performance and rope is not a contest .
Speaker 1It's a thread and where it leads is up to you . Thank you so much for listening to Behind the Banner podcast with me and Miss Faye today and yeah , we'll catch you on another episode . If you could give us a like on Spotify , apple , whatever you're listening on , that would be great . It helps a lot . If there's any topics you would like to listen to or talk about , you can even come on the podcast and , yeah , you should be able to find all our details on the all my links link and yeah , this has been behind the podcast with me , paulson victoria . Thank you very much and goodbye .
