Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Behind the Banner Podcast with me, poulsen Victoria. So if you're watching and potentially listening I don't know how exactly I'm going to edit this right now, but we'll figure that out. I'm currently looking real nerdy with headphones on and my glasses. I wear glasses. I know it's for reading, but, yeah, today's episode is going to be a little bit different, quite unique, I want to say so.

Speaker 1: 0:35

I have had multiple people message and ask for, ask for, um, how you say, to be on the podcast as guests, but they haven't been in person. They want to be on zoom where because, like they live far away or whatnot you like, I'm used to going to like London or Scotland to interview people or to do a podcast episode on a certain topic. Um, however, going to like Australia isn't possible, not right now at least, just for a podcast episode, and so, yeah, I figured I really do need to figure out how to do Zoom, like, I've been on Zoom before as a participant, but never a host. So if you're watching this, hi, it looks a bit different and I don't know how yet I'm going to edit the sound, but we'll see. So today we have a lovely guinea pig which has offered himself up to me in the way of me testing the waters with Zoom and I didn't realize, like you had. Well, I did realize you had to pay for Zoom, but yeah, I've just forked out over 100 quid, so this better be worth it. I need to do at least 12 Zoom calls this year hosting them, to make this worth it, but yeah. So today's episode is Whispers Through the Wire.

Speaker 1: 2:22

The reality of online domination is Whispers Through the Wire, the Reality of Online Domination. Now what that means. For did I already do the intros? I don't know. Well, this is Behind the Battle podcast. I'm Paulson. Victoria Intro's done. I don't know if I did, though, god, my memory's so bad, but yeah. So we're going to talk about online domination, specifically phone sex, and yeah, that's what I said. We're just going to focus on phone sex and we're going to start. We're going to talk.

Speaker 1: 3:00

So, before the days of sexting and pay per minute audio, there was the rotary phone and the sultry voice on the other end of the sex line. She wasn't in latex nor lingerie. She was in your ear and for many submissives, that was enough to fall to their knees. Submissives, that was enough to fall to their knees. These days, you've got so much more out there, but we're gonna explore why some subs do choose to still do phone sex. So brief history. In the 1970s to 80s there was the rise of pay-per-minute phone sex hotlines, often advertised late at night, feminized power, control by suggestion and scripted fantasies. We had the 1990s to 2000s.

Speaker 1: 4:04

The internet shifts power again. We've got chat rooms, we've got Yahoo groups, we've got the early fem dom forums, we've got cyber dom sub dynamics that emerge with chat based rituals. And, of course, the 2010 onwards. Oh my god, it erupts with so much life. The internet you've got platforms like Nightflip, skype, tumblr, onlyfans oh my god, it all explodes. Instant audio, erotic hypnosis, real-time humiliation. A digital dungeon with no walls. Dungeon with no walls oh, it's bliss.

Speaker 1: 5:12

And it is really a shock to the system, with people who were not used to this growing up, not used to this in their 20s, back in the day, where it was the dial-ups, where they, in the 2000s, they had the internet. But it was, it was a little bit of internet. It wasn't like what we've got now, where you can instantly come with somebody, you can instantly talk to somebody, you it is. Porn is so much more accessible these days than it ever was. The porn industry is booming and it is growing by the second. So why seek out online domination? Why seek out doms online domination? Why seek out doms? Well, accessibility not every sub can access in-person scenes due to location, disability, privacy and their own scheduling scheduling. I know multiple clients who they find it really, really difficult to find time to wank off or just for a simple chat, because it's not.

Speaker 1: 6:37

We're going to go dive more into this a little. Where it is, it's not just about wanking off, getting hard on coming, having an orgasm, because it can just be about the connection. It can be about talking, and I'm so very excited for this episode. And, yeah, you've also got the fact that this can be anonymous. You as the submissive, you as the person who calls up, you can give us a fake name, you can give us fake details, you can tell us about that fantasy of yours. It does not need to be real, it doesn't. It's as simple as that. We do not need any of your details. You choose whether you want to give that to us or not, but we'll get into the red flags of some dominance later on, which goes with that. But I'm just going to leave it at that.

Speaker 1: 7:42

I'm going to leave you on the edge of your seat with that that, but just gonna leave it at that. I'm gonna leave you on the edge of your seat with that. And of course, you've got the fantasy side of it, where the voice becomes everything. Wherever it's your voice, the dominance voice, both of your voices, it builds a persona. The more you talk with somebody, the more of a connection, the more of a story, the more of a fantasy you can build. And, of course, that fantasy can come with rituals and it comes with so much control, without even meeting. You don't need a flogger to dominate. I can have you crying just by whispering your name.

Speaker 1: 8:28

But on the other end of the line there's a human, sometimes vulnerable, sometimes unprepared. So let's talk to one, shall we? So we're going to be speaking to Gareth, a submissive man who has engaged in online dom-sub relationships over the past five years or so, mostly through the phone texts, and he's had a few sessions. And he's had a few sessions. He's going to talk about the highs and the lows and the hidden dangers of letting somebody in your mind. So let's add him to the call. Yay, it's still recording, it's still working. I was afraid that it would tell me not to carry on because of the recording. So we're going to dive in. Do you want to introduce yourself? Give us a little backstory.

Speaker 2: 9:41

I'm Gareth. I'm happy to be here today and to discuss with Miss Victoria the Inzenauts of the podcast today.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Yeah, so we are going to talk about what first drew you to phone-based submission. Phone-based submission.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Well, the first thing I found was the links through Twitter, through Domline, and going through Domline really helped me get into things and I was really happy to try and find someone and look in the session with so happy to um try and find someone and look in the session with.

Speaker 1: 10:32

So can you take me back to the very first time? What were you feeling and what were you searching for?

Speaker 2: 10:38

I was searching for um for a dom that would do sessions, and as well as phone calls and, um, I was quite nervous because you have to travel to go and see it on my first, which is, even though it was two hours away, but still two hours is a great distance by trains. You have to swap trains twice and, um, I'm actually going into the session itself because I've never done it before and seeing it and visualizing it can be quite nerve-wracking as it is.

Speaker 1: 11:14

Okay, so before we spoke, we did try to do the Zoom call, but then I didn't realize that I'd have to actually pay for Zoom and I only had a few minutes left. Um, you mentioned beforehand about of about only fans, so can you just talk me through that, your first steps with that?

Speaker 2: 11:38

um, miss, miss frankie babe, as she calls herself, because she's a dom. I was with her for five years on OnlyFans and we did multiple customs calls and Skypes because she was all the way in Yorkshire as I'm about, say, 200 miles away, and it's a bit hard to say pay a session, pay for train, pay for an overnight stay, as as you can, as you can imagine, it'll cost a lot to to do that. That that's in traveling. So it's mostly, it's mostly customs, because I had nearly, say, 25 customs. I was booking a custom every week to have different things to play in a session through roleplay and POV, as they say, point of view.

Speaker 1: 12:29

Yeah, yeah, ok. So we've already just hit on some things where, like, there's a lot of costs that can go into it, especially if you live in a certain area where it's not as easy to access the kink.

Speaker 2: 12:46

No, it's not Sorry. Do you want to jump in then? I was just going to say where I am. Like I was saying earlier, my area is like, say you order something, it's not like you can order and get it straight away, whereas in London London's more active where you can make a phone call at 9 o'clock in the morning and it's ready by 11 o'clock, whereas down here you've got to make a phone call 24 hours in advance, but then you have to travel two hours and swap trains, then get back and swap trains again to get where you are.

Speaker 1: 13:17

Basically yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 13:32

Exactly so when you wanted to explore in-person play, was it about privacy or safety? Were you nervous? Yeah, I was. It was more about the privacy was good because we were in a private house. I was worried about my safety because she said things on the phone at the time you have to do things and I said the things I didn't like. But then she said things you have to do, but then I didn't click on straight away. That was a red flag, whereas you should have a safety word put into place to say if this road does go, does go a bad way, you gotta stop the role, basically, and say what's wrong. There was no safety words, there was no safety nets, it was more just just going in and uh, you're just straight into the session.

Speaker 1: 14:17

Basically so this was a bad session that you had. Did this go from phone to in person?

Speaker 2: 14:31

Yes, I was on a call with somebody and I asked about these sessions because I've seen this person work over the years and I thought this person was a proper professional. But I didn't see the red flags, as I should have done basically. And when she asked me to do something I didn't like, I told her on the phone that's not exactly what I'm interested in. I'm interested in exploring something different. But she says you have to do it, you can go do as I tell you, basically. But I did try to say say basically, maybe in a session there should be a way of stopping. If it wasn't a way of stopping certain things, yeah, okay, so we'll.

Speaker 1: 15:12

We'll come back to that um in a few more questions, but it's good that we've hit on it. So as a lovely little follow-up question, was it more about for you, eroticism or was it emotionally intimate right away, so like phone chat and things?

Speaker 2: 15:35

Yeah, the phone chat was strictly professional, I've seen, because like we had to go through the ins and outs of our meeting and go by calls and arranging the bank transfers, and then the first session was getting to know me, like she said what she wanted, what the way I have to be, the way I should be and things I need to do in the future and I was like okay but, I didn't know that was going to come up.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Then we had like an hour session. Then she was watching me the entire time, making sure I was paying full attention and I wasn't like daydreaming in a way, like you could get lost in the fantasy, like you're enjoying it. There's more of a chance of like enjoying it but you're not supposed to enjoy it. But that's the point of the kink, where it's like you're supposed to enjoy the session as well. As you're going into a domination session to be maybe punished or playing a role, you're going to get punished anyway. So if you do a good job, that's the whole point basically. I mean, well, that's the way I saw it. I mean, even if you do good, you're going to get punished anyway, which is the whole point of the of being sub to dom basically. But that's just my opinion maybe so I think that varies.

Speaker 1: 16:57

Um, there's things like punishments, like where it is a fun punishment, but I would say it definitely varies on different dynamics of that dom sub relationship whether you're always going to get punished, because I know, for when I have sessions, we do firstly talk about boundaries, we talk about safe words, we talk about limits and we ultimately do talk at the start of the session about what do you want out of this. Do you want to come, do you want to be played with down there or whatnot? Do you want me to take any note of your private area or is it solely up to me if you get to come or if, um, it could be different in the way of they get the pleasure out of serving you and that is their theoretical, in a mental state, their orgasm. Sometimes they don't actually have to come and sometimes they don't actually have to get punished. So it really I think it depends on what relationship you have with the submissive, because I wouldn't say all of my sessions or the relationship between Dom and sob is defined just with punishments. But I can understand from your experience why you can think that and we're going to definitely go more into that.

Speaker 1: 18:34

But when you first did the lovely chats with the OF model. Did you do it from being horny, did you? If you would like to discuss that, yeah, it was, yeah, it was.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Well, it wasn't just being horny, it was about fulfilling the fantasy of actually speaking through the camera and being dominant, actually Like basically the outfits is what it's all about. Basically like the dominant full leather, the thigh high boots, the leather trousers, a leather top or crop top or whatever, a leather jacket, hook, gloves and a hat, really like all being submissive in person and dominated through the phone. To make it more lively, as you can't Again, like I said, to travel all the way up north again on trains, hotels, paying for the session would come to a lot, but doing it through the phone was more being submissive and then having a reward. The reward was to come. It was a reward at the end, but that was that's your point of the basically to make you be they could be be a good submissive and get rewarded for being a good submissive, basically yeah, I mean from when me and you have done calls it's not necessarily always been sexual, because we have just had like chats and things over the phone.

Speaker 2: 20:05

Yeah, absolutely, yes, I've done as well.

Speaker 2: 20:07

I've like, when I phoned her, I am actually I'll be on the block number, obviously for security, for security reasons, and I could talk to her, but then I was only limited to a certain amount of time, like 50 pounds for five minutes, 100 pounds for 10 minutes, but, as in adult work, for example, you're working off them sort of um prices, basically, if that makes sense, like so they have to make money.

Speaker 2: 20:36

I mean, yes, you are, they are fulfilling a fantasy, but then they're taking the time of their personal day to to do the job, like even when you call in randomly, like basically, yeah, you don't know what that bot, that dom, could be doing at the time. She may not be working, she could be in the car, somewhere traveling, but then if she's in the car, on the speaker, she can still dominate you through through the call, because she is the dom and and she can say like, like I'm driving now, I'm wearing my le, I'm pumping this pedal or do you wish I was standing on you, and then you say, yes, I do, then you love my boots, and so on, and it's easy to fall into a role that that easy, it's just, it's all in the mind and visualizing it and feeling it in the moment, and then just feeling, feeling, feeling through the phone, basically yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 21:29

I mean the numerous times where I'm doing a certain something like washing the dishes, and it can be. You'll be in such a like quote, normal situation where you're just doing day-to-day things or like day-to-day chores and then your phone rings and you're like, yes, I'm in my latex right now. I'd love to trample on you and like oh, it's great it is.

Speaker 1: 21:58

It's great for the provider being able to be so flexible, especially with like working hours and being able to do what exactly what? What you want to do really, and then, as you're saying with yourself, the dominant could be doing whatever and they can still fulfill their role of pleasing you in some shape in some way shape or form like um, exactly that.

Speaker 2: 22:29

Like you said, like I, um booked a skype, which was she was booking skypes my very first one and um I and she wanted 90 pounds, but because I, uh was short, she done me a deal. But then the requirement was I asked her could she wear a catsuit, but because this was a latex, skin-tight catsuit, it takes nearly half an hour to get on. You can't get it into the outfit, which is understandable, which is I've been trying to learn about these outfits. Like leather, you can just pull on, but with latex you have to like, you have to buy a special cream for the body or and lube and um and some talcum powder so that you get the outfit on all in one, basically, and your skin type. But then she had to dress up in a leather outfit, which took minutes, instead of an outfit that would take up to 30 minutes or one hour to get into. Because they don't, some people don't realize how long it takes to get an outfit on. It takes some getting into. Basically, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1: 23:28

I mean the amount of times I've had conversations with submissives when they're just like, oh, could you just throw on a latex outfit?

Speaker 1: 23:36

and I'm like no no you, you can pay me like double or triple, depending on especially how fast you want me to do this, because it takes so much time, so much energy and you do. You have like the lube to go on it and then you have to wash yourself afterwards and make sure like you have the good equipment, the correct equipment to like actually wash the lube off because, god damn, it stays on, it's relentless yeah, it does god people don't realize how much it is, unless you are into it like you know.

Speaker 2: 24:19

You understand it. Then yes, yes, way, when I book a custom, I book a custom a week in advance, so she has a week to prepare the custom and then get ready. And, as I've asked for the cat suit many times, it takes a lot to get into then, because then I, then we just start to experiment a bit more then where to go through the basic, because people think pvc and latex are the same, but they're not. Pvc is more flexible than latex. Latex is more tighter than pvc, if I'm getting that right absolutely, um.

Speaker 1: 24:53

So going on to the next question, do you think this can be addictive phone chats?

Speaker 2: 25:02

yes, it can be very addictive, like when you find, if you find the right dom, for instance, and she does meet your requirements, so like very simple needs to say the outfits and, um, the role play, then that is good and if she gets your, if it hits you so much after the phone call cuts off, then you get time to to call him back again if you want to like for tonight and you can call him. If it's okay with the dom to have maybe three or four calls a night, if that's okay then. Or maybe you call every night once a night, as long as the dom's happy and she's available at the time to take the call. And it can be very addictive for when you're in, for when you're into a particular kink do you have anything for like aftercare for yourself?

Speaker 1: 25:53

well we are yet to figure that out yeah again. In the previous episodes of behind the Paddle we did just cover dopamine, cortisol and a bunch of other chemicals in the brain and we talked about how some subs some don't even realize they might need aftercare, and they don't realize it until somebody speaks about it, or they might not even need aftercare. You never know.

Speaker 2: 26:26

Yeah, like if it's on a call and you're just talking, it should be, you are safe. But within a session, within a real-time session, aftercare is immediate, because I have been aware from experience of a YouTube video from another dom. She said she had to have a first aid course ready because a man who was in a session he actually died during the session, whereas she had to pull him down quickly and she had to bring him back through first aid.

Speaker 2: 26:57

But he said he took a Viagra with his tablets which was a bad mix and it can be very, very dangerous and he never made it aware. Basically, so you do have to have some sort of first aid and some aftercare during the session. I would say after the session, because even though if your session goes okay, then you can oversee him. But if he's bad, if you do have some marks, you have some whip marks or something, or maybe you've had a bit of a rough play then, yes, maybe some first aid or some maybe aftercare could be helped in that way, if that makes sense in aftercare.

Speaker 1: 27:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love hearing from submissives about different how their brain works and how they see things as well. So I'd say similar to what I said in the previous episodes about brain chemicals is like we're all different, where, like I, have had people ring up and not even do extreme stuff and maybe after they have came or fulfilled whatever they want, then they have rang back for like a nice little talk, a nice little chat and it's lovely.

Speaker 1: 28:12

So I think it does depend on just just other people and how their chemicals work, but it's lovely to hear about other submissives and how, if phone chat does alter their state and if there is anything afterwards. So we're now going to talk about the positive experiences about having a dom, whether that be online or in person. Having a dom, whether that be online or in person. So can you tell me about the first time when you felt completely seen, respected, potentially owned and cared for?

Speaker 2: 28:56

um, when I was um first, uh did um tied and teased. I was um tied and I was really looked after because I was being teased by by gloves and then by nails, but really like teasing with the nails but going up the body, and then I was um. Then we had some face sitting where I had to make sure I was okay and I was, and I was literally looked after until the end of the session where after I was on time, they said right, the session's over, please get your belongings. And then you go downstairs and you were asked was that okay for you? And yes, I think it was okay. I really enjoyed what we did and the session went better than I thought it did and there was nothing really that I was scared of because I'm in complete control. She was in complete control the entire time for really having good communication.

Speaker 1: 29:56

So what was the main purpose of going to an in-person Dom?

Speaker 2: 30:02

to actually experience it for yourself for once, to like whether it's like you're watching videos and you're seeing it, to actually experience what what it's like to be be controlled, to be, to be to be handcuffed, to be to be actually tied, tied and handcuffed to a bed, and actually see what it's like to give control up to another person, to be controlled and to be submissive and to be loyal.

Speaker 2: 30:28

What it actually feels like in person and obviously, like you say, when you, um, if a dorm allows you to come in after this session, basically, and um, well, you have control to have that, to have that or maybe for some of your own fantasy, which I really want to do just to worship and be loyal to a session, basically to the less not the punishment side, but the more the kink side of it. Basically to worship a dom, to worship a dom's boots, to have breath play, to be tied and then to be, then to be worshipped and then to be tied to a bed, and then she has control over you and she and she has and she can do what she wants to do.

Speaker 1: 31:20

Basically okay, so I'm guessing this person you did phone chat with before meeting them.

Speaker 2: 31:31

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:33

Okay, and how long did you do phone chat for before finally meeting them?

Speaker 2: 31:41

There was at least three calls, because the first call was to ask. You know, ask, this is who it is basically to actually hear a voice and be actually blown away that you actually are meeting this person and you are discussing it. Then you went through the fact of phone calls to make sure that it was who we were and we weren't. It wasn't time wasting basically to make do it was, we were, who we were and we went uh, this wasn't. It wasn't time wasting, basically to make sure it's all above board. Then we had to have a bank transfer. Then we had a full chat of what we wanted to do, what we liked, what we didn't like, and then again it was probably one one.

Speaker 2: 32:21

One flag I probably didn't look, look into was shit said if I tell you something, you do everything I tell you. I said, well, what if I don't like it? And she said, it doesn't matter, you do it anyway. But I didn't see it as a red flag at the time. Basically it should have been like a safe word or a way of stopping the session or a way of saying OK, no, okay, no, stop, like just stop the session altogether, basically so your in-person meets?

Speaker 1: 32:53

have they been um negative in-person sessions?

Speaker 2: 33:00

yes, the first session was okay, but we had some flags, but I didn't understand why at the time. Then the second time round was really, really bad and the session went absolutely downhill. Badly. It was nothing like I wanted.

Speaker 1: 33:18

I did send her a, so we're going to before we go on a ramble.

Speaker 2: 33:24

Yeah, yeah, it's me.

Speaker 1: 33:25

We're going to. I I'm gonna ask you did after the first session, now that we know that it didn't to further on the next session wasn't as great? Did she in the first session? Afterwards, did she? Um, did she give you any aftercare? Did she follow up after the scene or anything like that? Was there anything like that? Was it nurturing?

Speaker 2: 33:56

No only, the fact was I was giving them a glass of water at the end of the session and she just said to me how did the session go, did you enjoy it, what did you enjoy? And basically she didn't even say to me how did your session go, did you enjoy, what did you enjoy? And basically she didn't even say to me what is it that I didn't like? Basically it was just like the ins and outs. At the end it's more like playing it then asking questions later, where you're supposed to ask questions first before you play basically. So basically, if a player, if you don't know your lines, then you're buggered basically in an acting.

Speaker 1: 34:31

so, while acting, a role play basically so I'd like to also mention that after the sessions that you had, you rang me and yeah you then spoke about all this and then I I was like that's a red flag, that's a red flag, that's a red flag, and I did explain to you more in um, more in detail, what a good flag looks like and such. So, just for anybody who's listening who thinks, oh, he actually knows all of this, why did like he not realize and like it can, in general, even if you know all of this, you can still forget the red flags and you can still go over them absolutely, just like any, any relationship, absolutely yeah, because I'm not the type I didn't um because I was so new I was, so I was basically I died in head first instead of um, instead of going through the ins and outs properly, like in a way.

Speaker 2: 35:35

But that that was something I did. So but, like I said, uh, in the previous, previously, when I said I didn't want to do something, she, she said to me, you have to do it. But I thought, maybe in a session, if you say stop, or maybe. But she didn't give me a choice. She just told me to just what was I saying and basically I told her on the phone you will listen to me.

Speaker 1: 36:00

So, going back to the positive online experience, the mistress who you talked about doing OF with and such- yeah, miss Frankie babe yes, did she make you feel valued at all? Did, did she? Was she the good part? Basically, yeah she was.

Speaker 2: 36:22

She was the best part of it all and she took in everything I I had all my dislikes, all my likes, all my everything I didn't like and what I wanted, and everything came through with came through good like and we had such a good working relationship together.

Speaker 2: 36:38

We literally built up loads and loads of different role plays and it even came to a point where I was buying the outfits which I liked, which I asked if she was okay to wear, and basically to fulfill the fancy basically, and I did provide a lot of gifts in the time and she helped me and she made me feel like I was.

Speaker 2: 36:58

That was happy and we were in a good place and we got something we can do and this is something we can carry on. Then it was mostly skype sessions, but again, to do a proper one with her would have cost quad, quadruple amount of money to travel, to get trained, to travel, to get to the hotel for the night, to pay for a session, even if that session next day we're looking about maybe well over a thousand pounds for something. So I'm gonna last two hours, best part of the day basically, which is which is good, but then you've got to be willing to put the money. If you're willing to, to do all that where, where I live, I had to uh go with what I had basically yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:44

I think this is another thing, um, what's the word? Where you have online domination and you have in person, where online can potentially be cheaper, whereas in person, depending on your circumstances, can be much, much more, which is another reason why some people do go for just online only.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Yes absolutely.

Speaker 1: 38:09

I think your story really shows the difference between a really great experience online, where there is the fantasy, where there is a very good experience, and even if the negative experience, the person who gave you that negative experience they could do online as well, which they have done, and that that seemed all great online, but when in person, then there's even more red flags and it doesn't go to plan. So there is still the safety element, where online is much more safe than actually meeting in person. Because what I like to do on this podcast is I like to still say there are bad apples. There are bad apples in every single industry.

Speaker 2: 39:05

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 39:06

I certainly am not going to sit here and be like, oh yeah, we're all great and everything like that. Like, I'm sure at some point I'm going to do an episode on fin doms, which is a whole different thing, but there's a load of bad apples in that as well.

Speaker 2: 39:21

Yes, absolutely, because even when I've done before I met her, I met a few people who were doing custom videos, and every custom video I asked for, I asked for particular role plays, particular things to be done. At the end of it it really went bad. I had to email them and say what exactly happened with my custom today. It's what you wanted, it's a no. You've done something at the end which I didn't ask for, which has ruined it now, and I'm paying you to do the roleplay, which is what we are paying for and they were like, oh alright, we'll do it again. But again, even when you asked for everything in particular, it still didn't go right. And then it was like I kept going to, going to, going to loads of OnlyFans and a lot of them kept. They keep mixing humiliation and domination. I understand they are the elements, but there's a strict line between dominating and humiliating at the same time. Basically, so can you if you can remember.

Speaker 1: 40:20

Can you go deeper into that?

Speaker 2: 40:22

because I would love to know more, because I'm a bit baffled, so yeah, Like, for instance, like I wanted strict role play, which she gave, but then she was giving like a lot of, like, a lot of things that I didn't want in the role play. Like she was saying bad things about me. She was saying you know putting me down, and it was like play. Like she was saying bad things about me. She was saying she was you know putting me down and it was like saying like you're nothing, like you're nothing but pathetic, you're nothing but bad. And then it came to come eating instructions, which I didn't want.

Speaker 2: 40:59

And when I specifically said this is what I just wanted, it was a straight domination role play custom, it went to humiliation and and committing instructions, which is nothing I wanted. Basically, I was looking for more the straight, old-fashioned domination where they used humiliation, where they kept getting which I kept saying in a way I understand humiliation is part of, is part of it, but that's not what I'm asking for here. And they were like, oh, okay, then that was just a red flag for me, so I had to. I went through a lot like, say, five or six OnlyFans before I met Miss Frankie. They were two who actually listened to me and actually took in my ins and outs of what I liked and what I didn't like.

Speaker 2: 41:45

Basically because, even though you can have a custom, talking my ins and outs of what I liked and what I didn't like, basically Because even though you can have a custom, but then you've got to make sure your custom is filmed to your role play of when you give them what they want and what they don't want, whereas some of them are just thinking they're just humiliate men where a dom may love humiliation. But that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for to fulfil a fantasy, not to get a bit too much. Nothing that's to do with your fantasy or your role play.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Basically, so I feel like that can come down to a number of things either the mistress didn't know fully what exactly you wanted, and that that's kind of what it sounds like, where, like for me, I need to know exactly what you enjoy, exactly what you don't like a script is actually really beneficial in some ways absolutely when I have somebody in person, I'm like right, what do you not enjoy speaking about?

Speaker 1: 42:46

do you enjoy coming instructions? Do you enjoy being called pathetic? Because there are so many versions of humiliation and there are so many versions of, like, feminization and so many versions of um cbt and there's versions of everything and it really needs to be spoken to.

Speaker 2: 43:07

Um, really down to the t of like okay, this is what we're going to talk about, this is what we're going to do, and sometimes it just hits the it, it misses the mark, and sometimes it does hit, absolutely yeah that's hitting the nail on the head, where you do put in your dislikes with the script, what you don't want to do and what you want, and at the end of it you say I don't want this, I don't want this, I just want a straight, natural visual.

Speaker 2: 43:35

And it's like even Miss Frankie Babe said to me in a message I can't believe you haven't found a model or even a dom to even fulfil these sort of basic things you're looking for. And I said this is exactly my problem. I'm like I'm looking for the natural, straight domination and role play, whereas, like they just turn into a humiliation session where you're, even with domination, you're fulfilling the fantasy to the worship, the woman you want to be with, like when you first see her on social media where she's in a particular outfit or where she's dressed up, for her to be dressed up and to be, to fulfill and do a role, like, if that makes sense to do the role you want to do.

Speaker 2: 44:21

That's where you are paying for a service, basically, and if there's going to go go wrong then it's gonna make. It can ruin, it, can hurt the business by other doms losing money because they may not want, some may not want to try it with them because it happens again in a way not putting it down, but then even if you want to try, it does take a lot to to reach out again, you know, to actually get what you want, if that makes sense yeah, absolutely, and that that you mentioning that that comes with, um, that kind of conjoins with my next questions, which are basically after your negative experience of the in-person session and the online video, and if you have any of those as well, like, was there closure afterwards or was it just silence?

Speaker 1: 45:15

Like did the doms try to reach out and like, come to peace with you, or anything like that. Was there any closure?

Speaker 2: 45:28

Well, not really, after saying the bad things and leaving the message saying this is not what I'm looking for. And then after that they did say, well, I apologise for the video, but they're done now. And in the end it was like it just kept coming down to bad things, basically, and you had to literally speak up and say I do not like this. And they're like ah, I thought you liked that and it goes. No, I didn't like it because that's not what I asked for. I asked for the script I was given, and then it was just dead silence. And then it was like well, we are sorry, I didn't realise you liked that and didn't like that.

Speaker 2: 46:04

Then you have to speak up and literally say this isn't good enough, basically because a lot of people, basically, they're running off, they're working off the domination line, but they're using it in the wrong ways. Basically, whereas a strict dom would know the difference between dominating and humiliating, at the same time, where you're dominating to be a submissive, to to behave, be submissive and to respect the mistress, where if she wanted to humiliate him and embarrass him, she would do it in a different role. So, basically, getting the roles mixed up, which can be, which is what a lot of people have done, because they think it's the same thing where it's not really the same thing.

Speaker 1: 46:48

Basically, yeah, yeah, um, I I would say, well, I, I'm personally not a strict mistress.

Speaker 1: 46:56

I would say that I'm refined and I have been in the industry for eight years now legally, and so I know the ins and outs, I know what well, usually I know what exactly to reply with and expect and how to market myself and advertise yes, absolutely myself, and so I think it does come down to basically if they are in the lifestyle themselves or if they just do it for work, and how long they've been in the business, because I have seen people be in the business for years or much longer than myself, and they are still unprofessional in a good few ways, and it depends if they're open to learning from other people and being taught by other people and learning how certain other people do it in the industry and learning new techniques or sharing those techniques. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 48:10

Like example, I was talking with someone before I came to you and she described that she was working with a dom and this dom literally was out of her house and she damaged her property, basically, while trying to help her and she had to cut her off. And then she explained to me. When I told her about my bad experience, she said to me well, basically, to draw this out, you have the doms at the bottom who just wanted to make, who just want to make the money. You've got doms in the middle who do it okay. Then you've got the ones at the very top who are literally doing well and they literally know what they're doing basically.

Speaker 2: 48:50

So it's like a three-way street. Basically, which street do you want to go to and how much are you willing to pay, and how much you're willing to travel and are you willing to, um, go away and be with a proper mistress, basically like yourself, as like you're basically maybe over I say maybe 300 miles away from me, but uh, about 300 miles is a long way basically to travel and um, but where? If you go to someone who's closer and isn't as professional as they seem, that's whether what it can come down to.

Speaker 1: 49:25

basically oh yeah, absolutely I mean it. It depends on so many reasons going to see a dom or choosing online um where it comes to, because I I've had people come from ireland newcastle, london, america, um new zealand to come see me and it depends financially, it depends on your schedule, it depends on so so much and especially if you have a family or anything like that. But yeah, um, so we're gonna go into another question.

Speaker 2: 50:05

We've kind of we've explored quite um quite a lot on the negatives and things like that and a lot of my questions which I was going to ask you you've already answered, which is wonderful, okay brilliant, I'm glad to be here and I'm happy to answer anything you you give, and I do say as an honor being here with you today with this podcast to help others and help them understand and basically to help to help the people who, if you listen to this now, they know what to look out for and what to be aware of.

Speaker 1: 50:38

Basically, oh, absolutely. Did you at point feel pressured or manipulated?

Speaker 2: 50:47

I did, um, I did get pressured yeah to um to doing something I didn't want to do and I didn't want I really want to do it. I told on the phone I didn't. It's one part of the session I didn't like. But she said to me you have to do it and you do as I say. But even in the session, I was pressured to do something I didn't want to do, which I was, which made me feel unhappy and uncomfortable in that moment in time, because basically, it should have been where you are there, because you're paying her for a session where she wants to do what she wanted to do, not what, um, everything I wanted, basically.

Speaker 2: 51:24

And, um, I had to make sure that, um, she was in control the entire time and, like we say, it doesn't work from the ground up talking to her. But you have to have a safe word, which I wasn't given, and I didn't give any way to try and stop the session, just in case, because I did say before I had the session I was on medication and I do suffer with mental health, which I wanted her to be aware of, just in case she overdid it. And then she did do something to me which really, really hurt me and there was no safe words given there was no help, I did try saying stop, I tried stopping and she wouldn't stop and that was really, really hurt badly so did you?

Speaker 1: 52:09

did you blame yourself? Did it make you question your worth as a submissive? Yes, and it made me feel really bad so I think that ends me interviewing you and it was so lovely to talk and everything. And, yeah, I think we did cover a good majority of um questions where it comes to online and offline, so it was very lovely to hear from you. I am now going to kick you from the call so I can carry on.

Speaker 2: 52:41

That's okay, no problem, and I just say thank you very much and I appreciate you having me and and I'll be happy to return if you ever like to do this again. It was really lovely speaking with you in person and actually getting all this out in the open and, you know, and helping others and helping the podcast as well, which I'm happy to be a part of.

Speaker 1: 53:00

Yeah, thank you very much Great. I shall remove you. Okay, thank you very much great I shall remove you, okay.

Speaker 2: 53:08

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 53:09

Bye, goodbye and it's just us now and we're still recording. We're doing this and I've just realized that with me recording with my mic it's not going to sync up to the video, ah, because you can't hear him. So I'm gonna need to figure that out, but we'll get on with it. But yeah, as you've just heard from Gareth, you've got the negative side of meeting somebody in, sadly, where the first session was all right but then the second session absolutely did not go well and his online experiences have went so well. Um, especially because he struck he the location that he's at. It's not really possible that much unless you have quite a bit of money to freely spend to go see doms. So I am going to talk for a wee bit and I know this episode is probably going to be an hour long.

Speaker 1: 54:13

So the illusion of safety, just because it's digital, doesn't mean it's harmless. As you heard from gareth, it it really like affected him mentally. Voice-based dom-sub relationships can bypass rational defenses. It feels safe until it isn't. One of the most common myths in kink is that online equals safe, that if no one lays a hand on you, the worst that can happen is a little embarrassment. But for many submissives, verbal domination cuts just as deep, if not deeper, voice-based submission, especially when it's consistent and ritualized, can create powerful neutral associations. When someone calls you mine at the same time every night, it doesn't feel like play, it feels like belonging, until it's used against you. The danger lies in the emotional bypass. We mistake digital distance for emotional safety and by the time our gut says this is wrong, emotional safety and by the time all got says this is wrong. We're already absolutely attached and it really sucks for subs like gareth, where they've went from a really okay experience online and they have spoken to a dominant about meeting and he did ignore the red flags, because that is absolutely what can happen. I've said absolutely so many times recently. But that is what can happen where we just it, just where it just goes over your head grooming and coercion I don't know how to say that in the digital age. I'm sure you understand what I mean.

Speaker 1: 56:15

Some doms use status scripts or personas to wear down resistance and the fantasy becomes the hook. I know that what you see online is it can be just smiles and fakery. It absolutely can be. It is the fake, it till you make it to a certain extent and that sucks, that does, but it is reality and I've seen yeah, I've literally witnessed a dom who says they are experienced and then, when I've seen them actually play, I've went. Are you really Because now I'm teaching you how to actually use safe wears and like traffic light colors or like use impact or breath play correctly and it's okay? So grooming in online dom sub dynamics doesn't always look like manipulation at first. It often looks like validation, like you're the most obedient I've ever had or you're finally what I've been looking for.

Speaker 1: 57:33

Over time, subtle coercion creeps in. The dom may use emotional leverage to pressure a sub into escalating. For example, a real sub would send pictures Tribute now you know your place. Don be soft, prove your mind. These phrases may sound like sexy commands, but they're really layered with guilt, isolation or dependence. They become emotional traps disguised as play, without ever touching them.

Speaker 1: 58:11

A dom can coerce a sub into exposing their body. They can extract money or have financial control. They could obtain personal, intimate information. That leaves the sub very vulnerable to shame or blackmail. Now, now I have seen this again, being in the industry for so long. I want to really say for so long, because it's horrible if you've came in the industry and you're already seeing bad examples of other pro doms, where I've seen it firsthand, where a pro dom has taken a picture and then they've used it as blackmail without the person knowing, and it is disgusting, it is horrible and it is a bad portrayal of what the sex work industry is about. And because it's behind the screen, the sub often doubts whether the harm like counts and whether it'll actually go anywhere. But it does. It does matter, it absolutely does. Domination becomes exploitation.

Speaker 1: 59:30

Some doms aren't trained. It is that simple to say. There are books out there. There are people like myself you can hire to mentor you and educate you, but sadly some some aren't ethical. Some doms aren't and they just like the power trip. They like the money and they don't care who gets crushed underneath their boots.

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

Anyone can call themselves a dom. That's what you have to remember. The different platforms like I don't really want to name names, but like different online platforms, like adult work and such other work, can get fucked. Um, they nobody, nobody vets doms. There is not really a way to vet doms. It's like a resume. You can just blag it and get into the job genuinely. Um, nobody looks into the ethics, the experience or the emotional intelligence of the dom you like and if the dom's got like awards. That that kind of annoys me and yes, I did win professional dominatrix of the year last year in Scotland but I worked really hard for that. But there's systems where, like your fans can vote so, like they don't actually know you, potentially in like a personal realm or an in-person realm. They just know you from the fantasy and again you can put on that fantasy and so it becomes even harder, especially when it turns into in-person, if that person actually has the knowledge of what they're doing in person, never mind online.

Speaker 1: 1:01:34

Some doms don't understand or realize or want to realize the impact they give and the consequences of that. Some doms thrive on admiration, the yes gifts, the devotion, but they never ask is this sustainable, are you actually able to afford this? Or how is my submissive doing afterwards? Again, there will be doms out there who do do this. Sometimes they're on. Again there's ego-driven dominance where they escalate intensely without negotiation, they punish without consent, they ghost after deep emotional sessions, whether that be online or in person. They don't believe. Some don't believe in aftercare. Some don't even realize what aftercare is. The amount of times that I've taught dominance what aftercare is and they've just went. Oh, okay, that's understandable, that makes sense, and some dominance don't actually believe it is their responsibility for the aftercare and in the silence they leave behind, a submissive is left wondering if they were ever seen as human. That is how deep it can get.

Speaker 1: 1:03:08

Domination without care isn't domination, it's abuse. In a corset it really is and there's been subs who have had the whole. She told me I was her property. Then she never texted so like the healing and the red flags after the call ends. So what happens when you've been burned by a voice you trusted, when your dom isn't who she said she was, when the line goes dead but the hurt doesn't?

Speaker 1: 1:03:46

Your first step into healing in any dom, sub harm, digital or otherwise is naming it, and that means giving yourself permission to say this happened, it hurt and it matters. That's one of the things you do need to say to yourself is like this happened, it hurt and it does matter. It has altered me and it has taken effect. It wasn't just online. The phrase just online is often used to dismiss trauma. It's not like she touched you. You never ever met that person. You couldn't just have blocked her. These are often replies to, I want to say the submissives reaching out for help and actually speaking out about mistreatment.

Speaker 1: 1:04:48

But here lies the truth. Your body doesn't know the difference between a physical dungeon and a psychological one, made of voice, which has rituals and attention, and it has your heart in some ways. If a dom had you kneeling during phone calls, calling her mistress, begging for approval, that was real submission. If she made you feel small, ashamed or broken when you couldn't meet her demands, that was real harm. The shame, the trust you gave, the silence she left you in. That's not a fantasy hangover, that's emotional trauma. The connection was real, even if you paid for the call, even if it started as a role play. If she made you feel seen, owned, adored and then withdrew without care, the impact can be shattering. Emotional intimacy doesn't require a body and neither does emotional injury. Don't let anybody convince you it was just play. Your heart doesn't wear a safe word. If it felt real to you, then it was.

Speaker 1: 1:06:19

The pain from emotional abuse often goes unrecognized in dom-sub relationships because it hides behind a mask of consensual power exchange. Hides behind a mask of consensual power exchange. But if the power was uneven, if the care was absent, if the consent was manipulated, then what you experienced was not kink, it was exploitation wrapped in language that sounded sexy. And it's okay to mourn what you thought it was. It's okay to grieve someone you trusted. It's okay to feel embarrassed, confused or furious and to hold space for all of that without minimizing your story. You don't have to defend your pain, you only have to honor it. That's the first act of healing, the first act of power you can take back.

Speaker 1: 1:07:21

I feel like we've already touched on the red flags. Now we're gonna talk about money and gifts, without negotiation or a dom trying to persuade you to get gifts or give money, and it's roundabouts is the same as what we've really spoken about where it's. You want to serve me? Send 200 pounds, then we'll talk. Now there are things such as if you do want to dm a dom, then sometimes they do 120, 80 dollars maybe, even sometimes 120. I understand where that's coming from, because you don't want to. We are giving a service, absolutely, and we do not want to dedicate our time to something that will go nowhere, where it will not um profit us in the way of business. So we're going to ignore that side, because that side is honestly kind of valid because, like I charge for consultations and I do see it as a form of consultation when somebody does want to come into your space, especially if they haven't filled out your form or went by the rules of contacting you. And we will talk about on on another podcast episode fin doms.

Speaker 1: 1:08:55

If a dom dismisses or mocks your boundaries, for example, don't be a baby. A real sub would go further. You'll do it when I say you're ready. That's not domination, that's emotional gaslighting. A boundary is not a suggestion and you should keep your boundaries. Honestly, a good dom sees a boundary as an invitation to build trust, not an obstacle for her fantasy or their fantasies. To be fair, because you can be a dom in general, um, whatever gender you are. So their fantasy and we're gonna finalize this in a second, maybe another five, ten minutes where anybody can call themselves a dom. It doesn't mean they understand what power is, only that they know how to claim it. Potentially. The title dom is not a license to degrade, it's a responsibility to protect the best online dom sub relationships aren't built on intensity, it's built on intention.

Speaker 1: 1:10:06

What does ethical online dom-sub relationships look like? So you've got clear check-ins, for example. How was that for you? Do you feel grounded? Do you need to speak afterwards Like aftercare and just checking up on them, like some subs might not want that, which is absolutely fair. We're talking more on like a deeper level. So consent consent isn't just a one-time check box. It's ongoing, active, evolving and the dom, of course, can absolutely speak on whether they're in a scene, role-playing, online and such, and in person. They can check in at any point. There is no rules in saying you don't check in.

Speaker 1: 1:10:59

And to go back to previous episodes about the chemicals in our brains, we talked about aftercare. I will be doing an episode at some point about aftercare. Aftercare always comes up, but I will be doing an episode on aftercare at some point because there are ways that you can communicate um while in scene without even speaking, and the dom also needs to have emotional accountability. So, like, if the dom messes up, they need to own it, they need to repair what has happened in whatever way, and they shouldn't vanish. They shouldn't hide behind a username or a blocked number or anything like that. My final words if a dom can command your body or your wallet, they should also be able to hold your trust.

Speaker 1: 1:11:57

And it takes a heck of a lot on both sides, but, being a dom, you're a protector. You really are. You have so much, especially when you're doing it professionally. You have so much to think about and you need to really learn all of it. Um, resources for subs, reddit's great. Reddit is absolutely great if you have had a bad time or anything. Um, there are safe discord spaces and, of course, therapy. Therapy is always great. I definitely encourage people to go to therapy and, yeah, I think that's why we're going to end it. I have been.

Speaker 1: 1:12:43

Well, we've been speaking for about an hour and a half just under that now and, yeah, this has been behind. About a podcast, I think I'm. Probably I might rename the episode. I'm not too sure, but we'll see and yeah, this episode has been about in-person doms and online doms and how online doms are. They're. They're great, but it can also turn bad, not so great, and how it is a fantasy in the reality, and I'm sure we will do more episodes on this because it's not as simple as just one episode.

Speaker 1: 1:13:25

But yeah, thank you very much for listening to Behind the Padder podcast with me, paulson Victoria. I hope you have enjoyed this long episode and, yeah, if you want any topics or anything like that, or if you want to come on the podcast to talk about something, then you're more than welcome to come. Um, if you are a company and you want to advertise your product or send me something, that you are more than welcome to do that as well. I know that I am to do two reviews on some toys. I'm very excited. But, yeah, if you'd be so kind to give reviews on the podcast on spotify apple, wherever you listen to, that'd be great. But yeah, this has been behind the panel podcast with me, paulson victoria and guest gareth bye.