SPEAKER_00 0:57

Hello and welcome back to Bindavada Podcast, me, Paulson Victoria. So, it's been uh it's been a while. Um, we're gonna talk about Amsterdam. Now, if anybody is new here, my name is Paulson Victoria. I am a full-service escort, which means I do offer sex and oral and everything like that. I'm also a dominatrix, and I also do numerous things in the sex work industry. And of course, I'm a very big activist for decriminalization of sex work. Now, if you want to know why decriminalization instead of legalization or criminalization or the Nordic model, then please go back to my previous episodes. I did talk about legalization, criminalization, and the Nordic model in a good few episodes, especially comparing all of them and seeing what the outcomes would be for sex workers and people also who are trafficked as well. And for me, the evidence which I brought, it didn't surprise me whatsoever. Obviously, decriminalization is the best situation, it's not 100% perfect, of course, nothing ever is. But when it comes to minorities, we're we're talking about migrants, we're talking about LGBTQ community, we're talking about single mothers being able to actually put food on the table, you know, decriminalization is the way. But I went to Amsterdam, and I don't know, I've I heard a few things from colleagues that Amsterdam wasn't the greatest place. And I understand through a little bit of research that Amsterdam did want to make like its own like um well, I say Amsterdam, let's be honest, the government wanted to make like its own red light district, but have it boarded off and they wanted it to be like really, really secure. I'm just going to double check if that is still continuing. I can't remember if it is, but I rem obviously there would be a massive budget, so let me just actually check about that because I wasn't going to mention that, but now I feel like it's very relevant. Okay, yeah, so the City of Amsterdam has proposed creating a new multi-story quote erotic center to relocate some of the window-based sex work that currently occurs in the Red Lake district. The purpose is to reduce overt tourist-driven nuisance. They want to improve safety slash conditions for the sex workers, in theory, create more regulated location outside the very dense old center. So the new building is proposed to take a hundred of the existing 249 or 300 licensed window sex rooms from the current district. Now that's a lot. Now we'll go more into that because even I was shocked about how many windows there are. So the proposed timeline from recent reports is the construction is gonna start in 2029 and it's gonna open two years later. So like we've still got quite a while to object to this. and I say object we'll go into this because I wouldn't want this personally really So they want to shift the red light district. I know the legendary red light district, why some people like Stagdos go to Amsterdam. So they want to move it to like the south of Amsterdam or near RAI, which is like the business district area, which is crazy that they would think about putting it near the business district area when we'll go more into this. Why it doesn't make any sense to me that it would it just doesn't seem like Amsterdam sees sex work as like a real job, but we'll go into that. So the plan's not actually fully improved approved or implemented right now, but there is still um I've seen the images that Amsterdam have came up with, and it literally is like a skyscraper of whole houses, which is fine, that's absolutely fine, but they have, if you don't know, Amsterdam has legalization, they don't have decriminalization. We'll go more into that in a minute. So the decision on whether to proceed and invest still lies with the city council and depends on agreements, you know, the site, the land use, and it needs to be finalized just like everything else. Um, the political support has definitely weakened. The local branch of the D66 Party withdrew its backing for the new erotic center. I still can't believe that's the name they're going with. Um in October this year, which really does raise raise major doubts about whether the project will go ahead as originally envisioned. Hopefully it doesn't, unless there's decriminalization, but still we're gonna come to this. Like literally in the image, there was a wall round it. Like a wall round the build. It's insane. Um, so yeah, obviously, sex work organizations and local residents and business operators operators have voiced strong objections, concerns, which include safety, workers leaving a known district for a new site where they might have less collective protection, accessibility, you've got neighborhood pushback, you've got identity, the loss of the red light district just in general, and fears of out of sight, out of mind. We don't want to forget about sex workers, that can lead to the most horrible things. So obviously, sex workers still face relocation. I do not, just being autistic, like relocating or anything like that. I do not like my safe space being moved, something I'm so sure about and I know where everything is. And of course, client access and just sex worker access in general and client flow, you've got to then think about that. If you feel like you're being watched in this erotic center, then you know, some clients might not turn up. Some clients, you it's gonna lessen the clientele. Um, what's the security gonna be like? Like, there's a lot of things that do need to be finalized. And not only are you moving sex workers into a new space, again, there's gonna be less clientele or more clientele who are inclined to going somewhere where they don't care about being seen, which opens up to like more dangerous clients as well. And not just isolating the sex workers. I understand this whole fucking ridiculous you want to make a city look family friendly, trust me. Edinburgh Council tried it um two years ago, I think, when they tried to shut down all the strip clubs. And thankfully, with the sex work union, we pushed back and were able to be like, no, we are here, we're staying, like you're gonna make us lose out on so much money, and we are working, we have jobs to pay bills and to have a roof over our heads and to feed ourselves. Never mind if you have children or anything like that, if you have responsibilities where it comes down to taking care of other people. So obviously, there's so many things people are unsure of in general when it comes to this building that Amsterdam potentially might go ahead and build, which I'll be honest, when I went to the Red Lake District and I went into the Prostitute Museum, yes, I was disgusted by that name, honestly, because the word prostitute it became a slur through moral stigma, not meaning. So the meaning it comes from Latin. The pro means in front of publicly. Um, I'm not gonna attempt to say uh stature. Okay, maybe I will attempt. Um statue in Latin. To place, to set up, to cause, to stand, and then together, prosture, to expose publicly, to put up for sale, or to offer publicly. The earliest use of prostitute did not refer specifically to selling sexual services. It meant putting something or someone forward for public use. Over time, the meanings changed. It became a slur through moral stigma. Everything is moral stigma, it's ridiculous. The insult came later when Christian Europe reframed sexual behavior around sin. As soon as sex outside marriage became immoral, anyone who chose sex for money became a symbol of sin, impurity, danger, moral corruption. The word became heavily moralized, transforming from a description into a moral condemnment. And then the Victorians. They weaponized the word in the nineteenth century, where prostitute truly hardened into a slur. Victorian Britain and Europe built an ideology around female purity, chastity, and respectability. Women who violated this moral script were branded prostitutes, often regardless of reality. The word became a public humiliation tool. If a woman was seen alone at night, living unmarried, sexually active, associated with the wrong man, poor or homeless, raped and blamed for it, she could be socially destroyed with a single word. She's a prostitute. It was no longer an occupation. I mean, was it really an occupation back in the day? Because we are still seen to this day as this isn't a real job. We still don't have labour rights in a lot of countries. So it became an insult to womanhood, just like how men would say she's a witch, and a lot of women were burned at the stake just because the men didn't like them. Women are constantly blamed, women are constantly insulted. Misogyny has carried on all throughout. And I'm not just on about men, I'm on about women also saying the insult as well, because misogyny thrives through both any gender. It does because it all comes from a certain place. It's a key factor in how we have been a society and how we have grown. We are all in this pen. And if we stray outside that pen, or if we annoy a certain person, then we're banished. We're insulted. We're different, we're outcasts. It is very not right just because somebody has a moral view on how life should be for certain people. So laws in the 18 and 1900s took the slur and carved it into legislation. Throughout the nineteenth century, European and American cities passed vagrancy or idle and disorderly laws. Yeah. Get this. These laws allowed police to arrest people women who were walking alone at night, loitering, quote, behaving suspiciously, poor, homeless, without a male escort, simply standing in the wrong area. Police overwhelmingly enforced them against women who looked like prostitutes. This created the first state mechanism of female deviance. Being in public while female became grounds for suspicion. Normal behavior was reframed as criminal behavior. Women didn't have to be sex workers. The police just had to decide if they appeared immoral. This blurred the line between poverty, survival, and criminality. And the word prostitute became the catch, all justification for arrest. And the phrase ah common prostitute. Once labelled you were mocked for life. A common prostitute was not someone caught selling sex, not someone proven guilty or anything, but simply a woman the police claimed was a prostitute. Once labelled this because a legal identity, a category on your police record, something you could not appeal, a basis for future arrests without no evidence. I mean hell. When it comes to this, so if anybody does not know, I was charged with brothel keeping here in Scotland, which can carry a charge for up to seven years. Thankfully, my charge was dismissed. But I still have a police record which says that I was charged with brothel keeping. Even though I wasn't prosecuted, it is still on there. Um, I can't appeal it whatsoever. And they can arrest me in the future without any evidence. I mean, in any case, the police can do that, just in general. The police can be corrupt. I'm not gonna say all. All police can be corrupt. And you know, you could just still to this day in some countries, you can still be arrested for just being known by the police. There are um, there is evidence out there which says that the police have stalked sex workers um just because they know they're sex workers. I mean, this is just in general being a woman. And you could be arrested for just standing on a corner, having a conversation with a man, entering or leaving a building. This has all happened and they haven't been sex workers. I feel like we have the gist here. Where it's like once you are called a prostitute, then you're kind of stamped with the whole you're a prostitute, sadly. I think in this day and age, when it comes to moral views, especially with Ash Regan up there, she's not in the Alba party anymore. I don't think she's in any bloody party now because she quit. She got in a little tantrum. Um, she wants the Nordic model in, which is not great whatsoever. I could spend an hour talking about how bad the Nordic model is, honestly. Um, but I kind of want to just talk mainly about Amsterdam. I know I've already gone on a big rant about the origins of prostitution, and we're like 20 minutes in. But the Nordic model isn't going to help whatsoever. And she's even said, Ash Regan herself, that this is her moral view on sex work. She is not wanting, she does not say sex workers, she doesn't see it as work, she sees it as abuse against women and children, even though children have nothing to do with sex work, and she calls us prostitutes. She calls us a slur. And I'm saying it as as a slur because she doesn't mean it in a nice way. And you can tell when somebody doesn't mean it in a nice way. And over the years that has that's just formed what prostitute is. So let's get back to Amsterdam. So I went with a client, we went for five days. Um I was very sad about it, honestly. I mean, I genuinely thought like I have a big ego. Sex work has made me get a big ego About like loving myself and finding myself attractive. I mean, honestly, I I do have very depressive days where I just do not like my body. I feel like everybody gets that way at some point. Like, I know I don't like certain bits about myself. I know I don't like certain body parts and features, but I know other people love those features. And yeah, it it has made me sex work has made me I'm gonna I'm gonna try not cry now. Oh my god. It has made me feel really happy about the way I look and this is coming from a child which was massively bullied um from what the ages of like eight, um, not only from school kids, but also family members. And like I will give a big traumatic backstory to my life at some point, I'm sure. Um I am sadly like I feel like the stereotypical, oh, she's doing sex work because like you know, her daddy didn't love her and stuff, and like my dad sort of did love me, but like he beat me as well. But you know, like I have I am in therapy and everything like that. I think even if you don't have trauma, you should go to therapy. Um but yeah, sadly I do come with the traumatic background, but I think that again is all down to how society didn't deal with parents hitting kids, how parents haven't taught kids about. Sex ed, how they can't have they don't want to have that freaking uncomfortable conversation, and honestly, it's pathetic that parents don't want to sit down and actually teach their fucking kids. It honestly drives me insane. There are monsters out there that want to touch kids. Why would you not teach them that it's not okay for other people? I don't give a shit. I will literally say, if your dad touches you, if your mum touches you, and this this is coming from a parent. I have a child myself. If I touch you in a certain way, hell, that could be just patting you on the back. Tell me. Consent is key. Nothing goes in like the private areas or where you don't want them to go. And this is where they should not go whatsoever. Why aren't parents talking to their kids about the actual dangers? And then teaching them as they grow older about sex, about washing their own penises. It's ridiculous. And schools are no better. Schools I remember I think when I was 12, because we literally had one day of sex ed, which uh was like this stupid f fricking cartoon. And it was so ridiculous. It was like two adults getting into a bath and like one had massive pubes, and like it just it was more comedic, and that's not how it should be. Um and then the males, anybody with a penis, um got taken into a different room, and the girls, this is 12, um, stayed in the room, and the girls got told about periods. I suspect the guys got told about ejaculation, I can't quite remember, but we should be teaching this all together, and I know it's still not taught like that fully, where we are talking about um the four phases, yes, four phases of periods of women uh well vagina owners having four phases a month, like is so tiring, and guys are not getting taught that like when you get hard on like blood goes through the penis, um, and it's just like it's ridiculous, honestly. Like we we should be teaching them where the clit is, we should be teaching them how to actually masturbate, honestly. We should be te because like you guys love to blame porn. Love to blame porn, but has anybody actually teached uh their kid that one porn isn't real to a lot of the custom videos and just videos in general are there for the male gays and have been wanted for by males? Uh-huh. Um have they been taught how to do certain things in BDSM safely, as safely as possible? BDSM is not 100% safe. Um have they been taught certain things? No. No, they haven't. Because people don't want to dedicate a certain amount of time to have these quote unquote uncomfortable conversations when they need to be had, and the porn community sex workers are constantly being blamed for how ill advised parents, adults, teachers, the government are doing and have been they haven't been taught. They haven't. It's ridiculous. We now have the Online Safety Act, which obviously um hasn't impacted sex workers in a positive way at all. Like I'm not being funny, like I'm gonna watch what my kid watches and talk to them about it, especially because I need to know what they're doing is safe, and I will teach them how to do certain things when it does come to safety. It's it's unacceptable. Unacceptable! Oh god, it's ridiculous, honestly. It is the amount of times women, let's be honest, because when male porn stars do not get as much backlash as other as female porn stars do, or sex workers, it's ridiculous. I'm like so synchronous. This has become a rant, and I'm so sorry, we're half an hour in. But we need to start having those like uncomfortable conversations and make them not uncomfortable. Society has all raised us on these moral views, and it's not a fucking excuse. It's not an excuse for years. I thought, oh, because my dad was through this, oh because my mum went through this, and this was her life, that gives them a valid reason to not teach me certain things, and to literally ignore me being groomed at a young age by older men. And I'm not talking sex work, I'm talking like in real life, like personal experiences, not work, and it's it's no excuse, it is no excuse. The amount of therapy and time that I've had to myself, and I've spoken to people about my trauma, and it's no excuse for what has happened in other people's lives to make it okay for them to go, oh, well, this is how it happened back in the day. Yeah, and you're still a shitty person, you're still a person who doesn't want to teach the right way. So that is my TED talk about my trauma. Um, let's go back to Amsterdam. Um yeah, so walking into Red Light District, honestly, I didn't really realise like that. I walked into the Red Light District. When you look at the map of Amsterdam, you can see um uh not circle, but like you can see the route around the red light district on Google Maps. So I knew I was in the right area. Um, and then you know, we came across women in windows, which like before going to Amsterdam, I was like, oh yeah, I'd like to like dance in the windows and like, you know, get my ego stroked and all that stuff. But when I walked past, men were like doing gross stuff and slagging the women off and just being really off-putting, like I wouldn't want to serve that person if that's like they weren't gentlemen and like everybody is walking past and everything like that. Obviously, I'm giving smiles to them because hello, co coworker, um, and they're fucking stunning and they they you you need to give them respect at the end of the day. It's as simple as. Everybody deserves respect no matter what their job is, and it was really heartbreaking to see that, um, that people weren't giving them the respect, and some of them were like on their phones and like not dealing with customers and things, so I can only imagine how exhausting and honestly kind of humiliating that's how it seemed and that didn't seem nice. Um but I'm not a worker in Amsterdam, so I can only come from my honestly privileged view where we don't have to sign up or anything like that. Um we don't have to tell the government that we're doing this type of work. We only have to tell them when we make over, I think it's 50. No, we only have to tell them when we make over 12 and a half grand, because then we uh qualify for taxes. But then you can say you're doing a certain different thing, but then you know, you might get found out. Um, that's a whole thing. Go back to the banking episode, I think it was like episode two, four, six, something like that, really far down. Um, but yeah, it just didn't seem nice, honestly. So then I went into the prostitute museum. Um none of the profits of the prostitute museum, I'll just double check. Yeah, there is no like information to specifically say that the profits from the prostitute museum are allocated to sex workers or sex worker organizations, which honestly I fucking hate that. If you're going to exploit a quote unquote profession that you have respect for, then I believe that you should give back to the people who you are exploiting, which they're not. So that was like one of the first main things where I was like, um, I don't like this. And I'm just gonna play you a video of why saw when you when when you go in, you are met with um a video, and then when you walk a little bit around the corner, you're met with a wall, and on the wall it says Brian the Landlord, Matthew the Pimp, the prostitute, prostitutes in movies slash pimps, the Johns, the clients, and then next to Prostitute, there is another image which says sex workers. So I don't understand why they're using multiple names. It doesn't make any sense. Because again, prostitute was made into a slur, whereas sex worker that demands that we have rights, you know? So I'm just gonna play this clip, and so you've got to imagine each one of those words had like an image in a frame, and some of the images talked, like Matthew, the pimp. Uh you'll you'll it's honestly it it really annoyed me. Um, because you'll find out who Matthew is, and I literally like what um yeah. So hopefully you'll be able to hear this. If not, I'll have to cut it out. I would expect that a prostitute being 1530. So that was a John, basically saying that if I think a sex worker is being mistreated, I'm going to tell Amsterdam, I'm going to tell the authorities. That was very common in the prostitute museum, where it did say if you think somebody's being mistreated or anything like that, go to the authorities. Which I don't know how I feel about that.

unknown 38:52

I didn't know it's like that.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

So that was Matthew, the boyfriend, who they call on the wall a pimp. Um no. That really like that really took me back for them for for the government to literally say this is what a pimp is being a boyfriend, essentially. Um not by saying this is the boyfriend, but literally saying the words pimp next to the image and video of the boyfriend. That that that was fucked. Like I just I'm still so shocked by it. And then the prostitute, who again, we don't know if these are real people, if they are actually like sex workers and whatnot. So what this prostitute is saying that at the end she mentioned how how people condemn her work like people haven't prostituted themselves before by going out and getting a free meal by a man? Like what? What? Did you ever have said to someone before you're like honestly, saying that it's so fucking ridiculous? Like, yes, I'm sure there are women out there who go out for a free meal and then have sex because it's a free meal and whatnot, but like could she have not I mean again, this is probably scripted by the government or whoever made the prostitute museum. Um why couldn't she have said about how having a minimum wage job is modern day fucking slavery? You know how why couldn't she have said that instead she talked about women getting free stuff in exchange for sex? Like I'm just so garb smacked, I really am because that's just not what any pro sex work person would say. Because I feel like they would make the statement of people uh doing minimum wage jobs and like how capitalism and everything like that, but no, it just falls back on to the woman getting something for free and then having sex for it, which is like right, okay. I just like oh, I still can't get over it. So then after that, you're walking through the rooms, and there was a few things on the walls, you know, to keep you looking and things to keep you interested. And so one of the things was do prostitutes need a license to work? In the red light district of Amsterdam, everybody over the age of 21 with a legal European passport or green card can become a prostitute. Now, first off, that is there in itself trouble because not everybody can get a green card, and it can be a incredibly expensive and tiresome length of time to get a green card in the first place. And passports are expensive as well, like you know. However, prostitutes must register at the Dutch Chambers of Commerce and do an quote intake interview with the brothel operator to ensure they're independent enough to be working as a prostitute, and of course, must rent a window. So not only are they making sure that you're alone, which is fucked, if I'm honest, because if you go in with a friend or your partner, then they look like a pimp or something like that. And again, it's the stereotype of the guy being the quote-unquote pimp. It's just not right. So, of course, with that, you do have to pay VAT and income tax, you do have to apply for a sex worker permit, you do need to put down where you are working from. So, obviously, this can be difficult if you're not working from your home and instead you're doing it in like an alleyway and things. This can stop you from going in and getting this sex worker license. There are a lot of problems with this where it doesn't help survival sex workers who can't afford a window. So, another thing which I found on the walls was sex work and a business bank account. Why have a business bank account as well as a personal account? Using a business bank account in addition to your personal account helps you maintain a better overview of your personal and business finances. Which I honestly didn't see that much of a problem. I found it just really interesting that they were actually encouraging you to get two different um bank accounts, um, one for work and one for personal. Whereas in the UK and other places in the world, they are like closing bank accounts because we're sex workers. But if you look up, there is evidence that sex workers in the Netherlands face banking exclusion and related issues with banking accounts being closed or refused. So again, it's very interesting that they do just in general had that um poster up talking about um getting two different bank accounts when even in Amsterdam it is hard still, just like it is everywhere else. So even though they have um legalization, they're still having prop the same problems everywhere else is. There was another one which um was titled Prostitution Programme Newsletter for all sex workers involved in window prostitution, clubs, and escort services. And it it's a big letter, but the gist of it is the operator from whom you rent your space or for whom you work has recently received a letter from the city regarding several changes. We are sending this newsletter because we consider it important for you to be well informed about these developments as well. So I don't know where exactly they would send these, honestly, if it would be your personal or your business, but it I understand what they're trying to do, but I understand how somebody could also um take that letter and rip it up and put it in a bin. Because it does hold important information about what has happened recently. So, what does the Dutch government do to counteract illegal prostitution? Local authorities, this is what this post said. Um This question. Local authorities continuously investigate and inspect the working conditions of prostitutes. Customers also play an important part. Any customer suspecting false prostitution has the obligation to report the matter to the police. This can also be done anonymously at the Crime Stopper's phone number. Hmm. So we've just came across two bits which have mentioned illegal prostitution. Free if you do count not getting a license. They actually thankfully did, interestingly, surprisingly. Go lay down. Go lay down. They surprisingly actually did have um a poster up which said Geisha is a trade union for sex workers and is committed to collective pensions and insurance, legal support and test cases. Negotiation with room hire companies on rental and price protection, and then listed their details. Home not for sale. Home believes it is important that women working in prostitution eat healthily. They make soups and salads which they sell at the prostitution windows. So it's kinda nice, I guess. Having the trade union details there. Really appreciate that. I mean, soups and salads don't fill you up, but I guess they keep you fin for the window and not bloated. I don't know, man. Bit weird, but okay. They also had. I don't know how I'm gonna pronounce this. Scarlacking court is an independent Christian organization that offers social assistance to women working in prostitution. This includes help in cases of human trafficking, so not sex work, so not sex work, practical and psychosocial support, help in leaving the profession, obviously it's a Christian organization, they want you to leave as soon as. Second step, daytime activities and guidance into work. So again, they want you to leave prostitution. And there is another one underneath. Legendess health. Women can visit the women's pastoral care center on certain afternoons and evenings for tea and coffee with someone willing to listen. Because we always need that person. I mean, therapy. Like, I don't want to go and sit with somebody who potentially has a different agenda, meaning they want to exit or they're gonna talk to somebody. Like, you're not going into this center where it's like therapy where they can't speak about certain things, you know? Like, there is no client care. You're just talking to a person who you have to hope isn't gonna say things. So there was another one which said many care workers in Amsterdam carry out field work and visit prostitutes at work. The female confidential counselor is there to help prostitutes and to help ensure a good and pleasant practice of the profession. She will listen to you, can provide advice, and help you to present your case to the appropriate authorities. You can talk to her about your working conditions, any compulsion and exploitation, or anything else you would like to discuss. Of course, you can do it all of this anonymously. Which is great, but again, there was a lot of stuff heavily talking about exploitation, trafficking, and things like that. It just gave a bad vibe. It really did. Like it made me not want to be a sex worker in Amsterdam. Like it it did its job. Um, another poster was care and assist at work. As a sex worker, it is important for you to take good care of your body. It is in the interest of both you and your client for you to work safely and healthily. P and G292 provides free and anonymous assistance with the following STD slash HIV testing, hepatitis vaccinations, information on contraception, consultations on sexual health, prescriptions for contraceptives, appointments with the prostitute, appointments with the prostitution social workers service for help and information on employment, income, taxation, debt, housing, and the exit program. Consultations for male sex workers. This is the first time hearing about male sex workers, and that it's so weird how they go from sex workers to prostitute, sex workers to prostitute. Courses in Dutch, English, how to use a computer, self-defense, and applying for jobs. Boom. There we go. They've hit on a few times where it's like you can exit. Interviews with the confidential female counsellor. So that's all free, which is amazing. But then you do have to think about the people who do not want to come forward and have on record that this is their job. Because again, you will be branded with you know, she's a prostitute. I found it really interesting as well that they did have a table which said um areas where sexual activity takes place, elements which had seating areas in saunas, steam rooms, cabins, bed frame, bed linen, shower areas, sex, cinema, seating area, any objects or surfaces that people may touch with their hands, towels, non-moisture, permeable covers for mattresses and benches, floors, floors and saunas, steam cabins, walls that may have been touched during sexual activity, other walls, swimming pools, jacuzzies, hot tubs, and across from that it says after use daily or following rental period, weekly, periodically. And then the comments say at least twice a day if the area is in use all day, wash after each client, if the towel is clean. If a clean towel is placed on the bed for every client, only the towel needs to be washed after each client. In this case, clean the covers and pillowcases daily, or if they are visibly dirty or wet. And like it it just goes on. And it I found it very interesting that they went in depth to say how often things are used and how they're cleaned and things. So I also found this interesting. There was a bit on the wall which says, what do we want? Sex workers and their clients to meet in a safe and regulated environment, window brothers, sex clubs, and escort agencies to operate only with a permit, sex workers to receive the support and care they need, prostitution to be a clean, fair, healthy, and hospitable business. What do we reject? Forced prostitution, exploitation of vulnerable people as sex workers, illegal forms of prostitution. It's ridiculous. Like I'm not being funny. I do not reject somebody who is doing prostitution illegally because they have to do what they need to do to survive. The exploitation of vulnerable people as sex workers, I'm sorry, what are we? Are we prostitutes or are we sex workers? We're going back and forth between this. Like one sounds like they have rights, sex workers, and the other doesn't. Trafficking or being coerced into the sex industry is not sex work. It is being trafficked and forced. It is not the same. And like they had a poster which said sex work equals work. Going to visit the red light district, question mark. Please respect sex workers and don't photograph them. So that was another rule where you couldn't photograph the window girls. The window sex workers. They also had another poster which said male prostitution in Amsterdam. The vibrant red light district in Amsterdam is one of the most important, but also one of the most controversial tourist attractions in the Netherlands. On all but two small streets, women sell their bodies for sex. In the Bondersteed and the Bloodstrade, one can find transgender or transsexual prostitutes. Men are nowhere to be found behind windows. Instead, they operate in parks, gay bars, gay clubs, chat rooms, and illegal brothels. Huh. So they don't get the same rights. That's not fair. That's just straight up not fair. I'm just gonna be reading from the posters mainly. Male prostitution is hardly discussed in the Netherlands, but it is out there in every province, region, and city. It is therefore important to raise awareness about the existence of these boys, not men. Oh my god. I'm getting ahead of myself. The existence of these boys and men. Why does it say boys? I'm like so shook right now that it says boys. It's the whole violence against women and girls again. During our quest to paint a picture of male prostitution in the country, we were often surprised by the helpfulness of the community, even while being shocked about some of the details in the business. Well yeah, we're humans. We do want to say that, you know, we are sex workers. Male prostitution is characterized by three major taboos. And they're taboos because moral views, keep that in mind. First, receiving money for sex is not generally accepted from either male or female clients. Second, homosexuality is still stigmatized, and third, men are not, quote, supposed to be the victims of prostitution or sexual abuse, which often leads to their not seeking professional help when they need it. I mean I'm not being funny, what I've read seems just in general how they're spoken about male prostitutes, it doesn't seem welcoming. We found that the majority of male prostitution is voluntary. Most of the Okay, so when you say most, the the majority of male prostitution, so you mean you did find some that were forced, which means that it's not sex work. Most of these sex workers are not dependent upon the money that they earn by performing sexual acts. Even those forced to work in illegal brothers begin on a voluntary basis. One of our most valuable findings was that the internet plays an important structural role in the broadening the range of male prostitution in the Netherlands. I mean, yes, there is a lot of things online these days, and that is how you advertise. You can't go out on the street that's soliciting. Duh. What are we meant to do? We can't even post an ad in the paper. Most prostitutes come for the free STD tests that are offered. According to the GGD, 20% to 25% of the males who prostitute themselves have STDs. In comparison to 5% of the female prostitutes. One example of men who voluntarily prostitute themselves through pay dates is students, under cover of anonymity. Internet chat rooms increase access to male prostitutes by removing the stigma associated with visiting a physical meeting place, such as a bar, club or park. They also increase access for those who wish to become a male sex worker. See? Like they're going oh Sex worker, prostitute, sex worker, prostitute. Want to do so without a pimp. Escort service, club or brothel. These sex workers are able. The independence provided by the internet for sex work allows these men to maintain control over the money received for their services and to become an and to become entrepreneurs. With control over with whom, when and how much they work. I'm sorry, entrepreneurs. So it's alright to say men are entrepreneurs, but women aren't when we do so okay. A defining characteristic of male prostitution is the disparity between the overwhelming majority of sex workers who operate voluntarily on the internet and the much smaller minority who are coerced into it. Compared to female prostitution, the gap between these groups appears to be larger. There seems to be only a small group of men who are dependent on the income but engage in the work voluntarily. This one's great. There was literally a how to become a successful prostitute. 10 insider tips. And of course, it was posture. Pout those lips and work those hips, stand upright and accentuate your curves. Like I'm just why are you encouraging people to do sex work, honestly? Like when I talk about sex work, I do not encourage it to anybody. Um because while there is loads of downfalls, uh there's loads of negatives, more than not more than positives. I mean the only positives are money, let's be honest. Um, and yeah, I I've been able to like stroke my ego and everything like that, but I've also been stealthed, sexually assaulted, um, strangled, and you know, yeah, my bank accounts closing. Um, I've been bullied by clients. I mean, the government fucking hates us, you know? Like, I would never advertise it as how to become a successful sex worker. It's just odd. Um, the second one was make sure you look cheerful. Men, right? So the only audience, my only audience is apparently just men, when actually the majority of my clients, yes, are men, but I do get I know I just contradicted myself a little bit there. But the majority of my clients, yes, are men, but I also see transgender people, I also see females, I also see couples. Like I don't like it when it's just men. Men, men, men, men, men. And yeah. I just don't like it where it's just men. And I love what this says. So I make sure you look cheerful. Men don't men don't enjoy spending money on a surly woman, whatever that means. I'm guessing not great. Yeah, it means bad tempered, unfriendly, rude, or hostile. Um, yeah, not great. And of course, the third one, stand out. Fourth, make contact. Smile, lick your lips is number six. Seven is use your hands. Eight is hair. Nine is beckum. Make your customer you believe you want him. Ten fall back option. Is your customer still in doubt? Use your assets to convince him. Your breasts, your behind, your fies. Show yourself from your best side. Do what you need to do. Oh no man, that just feels icky. It does. So in Amsterdam there is an average of 900 sex workers working per day. Are most sex workers married or in committed relationships? This was one of the questions that you could it was an interactive quiz. And there was two answers. Yes, by the far majority are married or in committed relationships. Two, no, it's very difficult to combine with this work. The next question was how many Dutch men visit hookers using a new word now each year? Do I remember what questions I ticked? No. It's very weird just to say Dutch men. But like when you look it up, there isn't really like that much reliable um data because like it says 200,000 between 400,000 and 500,000, and then it says one in 10, so about 700,000. Like that's a it's just such like it's just such weird questions. Um, so there was the story of Anna. I've had 25,000 customers, and I honestly found every one of these stories um again very off-putting being a sex worker, which I feel like was just our intention in general. So I'm gonna read this now. My name is Anna, I come from Poland. I worked in this room for seven years, often seven days a week, 12 hours a day. In those seven years, I think I had about 25,000 customers. Usually they paid 50 euros, but sometimes less. If it was really quick, just 30 euros. More than 1 million earned. If I calculated what I earned, it makes me feel sick. Altogether more than a million euros. Nearly all that money is gone. Every day I paid 150 euros for a room to rent. For years nearly all that money I made went to the man who brought me to Amsterdam. If I had known all this, I would never have gone with him. He told me he had a job for me in a hotel. Arrested for trafficking. He took my passport and I had to give him all my money I earned. He was going to keep it for me, but all that money is gone. I was afraid of him. He was aggressive, and he threatened to tell my family what I was doing. After four years, he was arrested for trafficking. I stayed in prostitution. What else could I do? I still work, but in a different room. I have been able to save money during the last few years. As soon as I have enough money, I'm going back to Poland. Now, everybody has their story to tell, but I don't think this was an okay story in terms of when I think about having a sex I'm gonna call it a sex worker museum rather than a prostitute museum. I want to hear about like celebrator stories and unions and the story about how the sex worker in New Zealand um won a case against her boss who sexually harassed her. Like, again, as I've said, sex trafficking is so different from willingly going into the sex work industry. Again, we all do this to like pay some bill, but this got very dark very quickly. So another question that was on the wall was do prostitutes have a weapon, an alarm button or security at their disposal? The answer to that was prostitutes have a alarm button, weapons, self-defense spray, etc. are illegal in the Netherlands, although plenty of prostitutes will carry these. The best protection for prostitutes are their colleagues. There is great solidarity among prostitutes, and a prostitute who encounters problems will be helped by her colleagues. So the government has said, nah, fuck it, they'll sort it out between themselves, basically, let's be honest. So this was the story of Eva. In two years I will start working in a law firm. When I came to Amsterdam to study, I was approached by a beautiful woman. She asked me if I wanted to earn easy money in prostitution. I liked her very much, trusted her, and could use the money. I'm not ashamed. I went to work in a fancy club on one of the canals of Amsterdam. The first day I felt terrible. I had sex with men and I did not know and often did not like it at all, but I quickly got used to it. I have done this job for three years now. I'm not really proud of it, but I'm not ashamed either. I often enjoy my work. I like to be around people and I love to make myself beautiful. Some customers are really awful, then it is hard to work. But I often really enjoy my work. I make a lot of money, so I do not have to borrow money for my studies. In two years, I will be working in a law firm. I'm happy with the choices I made three years ago. So that was a bit of a nicer story, but again, we have like somebody who was approached by someone to go into the trade. Um but I totally agree where like you don't always have great days and you don't always have great clients. How many women work as a prostitute in Amsterdam? The exact number of working prostitutes in Amsterdam is not known. Research from 2010 indicates the number probably exceeds 6,750. In windows, between 1,090, between 1,090 to 3,380. Like they are quite exact numbers. In private clubs, 820. In licensed escorts, 600 and 600 non-licensed. So are licenses really working? I do not know where they actually got these statistics from. Home workers who aren't licensed, 2000. Because like, I'd be very interested to know, like, if these are true statistics. So the story of Kelly, I'm in control. My partner and I had broken up and I had to leave everything behind, even my home, and all my belongings. I had to find some way to earn money. Through a girlfriend, I ended up in a sex club where I discovered I could earn a lot of money. However, I didn't enjoy having sex with strangers. This was the bit in the prostitute museum where we went into like a BDSM room. So SM mistress, sadist and masochist. When I mentioned this to a colleague, she said that I should talk to a girlfriend of hers who worked as a SM mistress and made a good living without the obligation of having actual sex with men. I decided that I wanted to give this a try. It seemed exciting to me, and I had the feeling that this line of work would suit me well. It takes training and time. The SM game is an art form which is not easily mastered. It is important that you have good intuition as how far you can go, and there are many techniques. It takes training and time to become a SM mistress. There are various books, websites, and courses which help you master this specialty trade. I approached the SM master and asked him to take me on as an apprentice. I had to pay him 3,000 euros. Holy shit, that's a lot of money. He taught me tricks of the trade, bondage, teasing, humiliation, mind games, and much much more. Now it doesn't say with the Euros, like how long she was with him for or anything like that. I really hope it wasn't just a lump sum in a quick session, because Jesus. Especially how to play with your slaves, how to stay in control, and to enforce the set boundaries. When my apprenticeship was finished, I rented a window and began to work as an SM mistress. It was wonderful, and I earned my €3,000 investment back in just a few days. Now that is crazy. Hmm. Not everything is as easy as that when it comes to sex work. You don't it it's you Sometimes you stumble across money, other times you don't. You can be dry for weeks, or you could hit gold with in that week or within a day, you know? You know? I'm in control. Physically, I find the work much less difficult. It is great that my customers are really happy with me. They can live out their inner most private fantasies here. The work is enjoyable, of course. You always have to put on a show. For me, it is especially important that I am in control now. Again, I d I don't know, it just feels weird. How many windows are in Amsterdam? There's currently well when writing this, uh, when making the Prostitute Museum, there was approximately 400 windows. And then when you go to the end of the lovely museum, um it's I the mystery of the unsolved murder. They talk about murders of sex workers. Yeah, they had a little room where you could see into of this woman named Annie, who was murdered around midnight. And they don't know who killed her. And they named her Chinese Annie. And I honestly hate that that's her name. They don't really explain quite a lot about her. They mentioned that she was strangled. Her body was still warm when officer when the officer reached the scene of the crime. And it's disgusting because it then says who killed her? The neighbour, her jealous boyfriend, a lover, or the owner of the brothel. Like can we not? She was wrapped in a blanket and completely naked, even though she would normally never fully undress for customers. Why was she found naked? Like that is gen that's what it says. It says why was she found naked? The telephone plug was ripped out of the jack. Who did this and why? I don't fucking know. Like, it's so disgusting. That they're saying this, I don't know, I it just rubs me the wrong way, it really does. A nylon stocking was found on the floor. Was it used to murder Annie? This seems to be the case. However, no usable fingerprints were found. There were so many people who had visited the room that it was covered in fingerprints. And then they do have a memorial poster and visual of all the sex workers that were murdered up until 2005, I believe. Which was actually really nice. And then from there it went into prostitution and fashion. Like it was it's so it was so weird that we went from death to fashion. And then there was like this giant news article which was all covered in how was Marilyn Mumra a prostitute? Some old guy loves orgies with underage women. And then uh there's Tiger Woods, Eddie Murphy, Jack Nicholson saying, I was really obsessed with prostitutes. Tiger Woods paid for sex. Um what the fuck is it? Russell Brand, that's the knobhead. I could have invented prostitution, like like ridiculous. Ridiculous. And it was like Kim Kardashian dates for money, and it's like, okay. Right? Um, and then of course you've got the Boy George handcuffing male escort pop star to prison. Sadly, he should have served time, like more time. And it's like Hugh Grann arrested with his pants down. Los Angeles police arrested the film star for engaging in oral sex with prostitute Davina Brown. Grann was fined £1,000 with $1,000 and placed on two years probation. Like fucking ridiculous, man. And then they had a confession confession, my erotica secret booth. And so, of course, I had to write in there, decriminalize all sex work. I just remembered one more thing, which I didn't have an image of, so obviously my AHD brain completely forgot. But um, another massive off-putting thing, like I don't know why the fuck they would have it. Like, honestly, it just felt like they were trying to put as many people off sex work as possible, which I understand this. What I'm about to tell you is like the true true reality. It is the true reality, but it was just hard to watch. So they had a big sort of life-size screen, um, where you're kind of imagining yourself being in the window and you're watching people pass by the window. And so you see couples sniggering and putting their nose up at you, and you see lads on a stagdo, like you you're getting dirty looks, and I think one of them spits on the window. It it wasn't nice, it really wasn't, and I feel like if Amsterdam really truly knows that this is happening, why is there no like security measures to make sure like abuse isn't happening? Um and then I don't believe they are tending to any risks that are happening right now in Amsterdam. I also love that all the posters and everything, aside from the sex work organizations and the Christian organizations, there wasn't anything from any what's the word, reliable um evidence talking about how legalization is actually good rather than d criminalization or um decriminalization. Like there was nothing positive about what they said basically what they are basically advertising, you know, sex work. There was nothing against them either. If you get what I mean, like there was talks about trafficking, but there wasn't talks about if workers got pensions or maternity pay or sick days, anything that workers should have, and like insurance as well, like there was nothing to say that, or like free healthcare, you know, things like that. There wasn't any actual labour rights that really stood out to me. Like, yes, you could get free counselling, and it's great that there are exit strategies, but they're not gonna give you money to try and exit. They're just gonna hit you with the oh yes, we can help you find a job, but yeah, basically that's that's literally it. They're not gonna give you money to leave sex work like how other countries have. I mean, there's only been a few countries that have um given money to sex workers. There was a country recently, I can't remember who exactly it was. Okay, it is impossible to find uh the article which I found the other day. Um, but there there's not that many countries um actually wanting to give viable, survivable exit strategies. There was meant to be a pilot program um where in Hawaii they would provide $2,000 a month, but that didn't end up going ahead, which is crazy. Um there was in France, I think they gave 200 euros a month, something like that, to exit the sex trade, and that's not possible. Like you can't survive on that. So the fact that they didn't mention proper positives and they didn't talk about the differences between decrim uh legalization and criminalization and the Nordic model, I feel like that really speaks to volumes. Yeah, I feel like when they don't go into the proper laws and the benefits of being a sex worker, prostitute, hooker, whatever you wanna call us. And rather they go into fear-mongering and it it wasn't nice. It really wasn't. And so yeah, that was the Prostitute Museum from my point of view, from a sex worker's point of view. Um, a sex worker who works in Eng uh well, has worked in England and works in Scotland currently. And I know this is a long episode, um, thank you very much if you made it this far. Um yeah, I did not very much enjoy it. I didn't think it was good. And of course, when you're in the red light district, there is like the erotic museum, and I feel like it very much Amazon very much exploits sex workers. It's not great. But this has been Behind the Padder Podcast with me, Boss, and Victoria. I hope everybody has enjoyed um this episode. I promise this Thursday I will come out with carry on reading the book that we're reading. And yeah, you can follow us on Instagram. I don't really use Twitter, but there is a Twitter. Um else. I think that's probably about it. I don't really use that much social media these days because we're all bloody shadow banned and whatnot. Um, but yeah, thank you very, very, very much. If you wish to support the podcast, that would be amazing and really, really great. Thank you. And bye. Oh, please don't please leave a review. Please leave reviews on like Spotify and Apple and everything like that. All right, bye.